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LCY Remote Tower

Old 18th May 2017, 12:01
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LCY Remote Tower

I hear LCY is to get the first digital tower in the UK in 2019. Manned from Swanwick and providing significant benefits and efficiencies. I suppose NATS will save a bit on London Weighting...
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Old 18th May 2017, 12:08
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Actually it will cost more for personnel IF this is true.
City is a 'Band 2 ' unit while Swanwick is 'Band 5' so the controller's salaries will be considerably more.
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Old 18th May 2017, 12:58
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Interesting chevvron, I assumed it would be cheaper. Saab's got the tech contract I'm told.
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Old 18th May 2017, 13:50
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They won't get band 5 money for nothing. I bet they either stay on their current band or they get band 5 if they volunteer to validate on a radar sector at TC. I say volunteer because I'm not sure if nats can move them and make them validate on radar, especially if they don't have an approach ticket.
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Old 18th May 2017, 14:17
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Originally Posted by GASA
They won't get band 5 money for nothing. I bet they either stay on their current band or they get band 5 if they volunteer to validate on a radar sector at TC. I say volunteer because I'm not sure if nats can move them and make them validate on radar, especially if they don't have an approach ticket.
Such an offer, I have no doubt, would interest controllers...given the lack of opportunity to do radar at any of the main London airports.
(In the mists of time) I'm sure there used to be an agreement about being able to do radar training after a period of time being valid at a tower-only unit...
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Old 18th May 2017, 14:53
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As I remember, there was an agreement that prevented having different banding on the same Unit. However, if the service was provided from the CTC, as is Western Radar, then the pay scale would be much lower.
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Old 18th May 2017, 15:00
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Where is the approach function for EGLC carried out from at present, and is there a list published of the significant benefits and efficiencies?
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Old 18th May 2017, 15:58
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Zooker, devils advocate, perhaps one (the only?) hypothetical benefit would be 'because the airport wants one'.
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Old 18th May 2017, 16:37
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Good answer as always, Gonzo.
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Old 18th May 2017, 17:35
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Having visited EGLC a couple of times, the airport is hugely constrained for space. Removing the tower from the apron area could free some up. Any extra cost could easily be offset by the airport by having an extra parking space, or another lounge, or both.
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Old 18th May 2017, 17:41
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EGLC approach is done from TC so I suppose nats could try to move them there and get them dual valid. Maybe then train the approach controllers to do tower, more efficient use of staff. That would then make the contract very difficult to lose. Maybe a route they could go with other airports to safeguard contracts...

I believe the airport wants to get rid of the tower and use the space for something else.
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Old 18th May 2017, 17:45
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Originally Posted by Islandlad
Who will work in the tower while the other watch is training on the telly? Even with recordings they will have to go live at some point. Can't be in two places at once.

I'm sure they have a plan....

Double up with half a set of non-NATS Controllers then move, then radar, then ....
Not just controllers
I believe NATS only supply controllers to LCY, the assistants being employed by the airport, so if they went to CTC (for instance) they would need support staff too.
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Old 18th May 2017, 18:07
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Originally Posted by chevvron
Not just controllers
I believe NATS only supply controllers to LCY, the assistants being employed by the airport, so if they went to CTC (for instance) they would need support staff too.
What pish you talk! (Or, more PC, your beliefs are half-truths)
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Old 18th May 2017, 18:28
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Originally Posted by Islandlad
to make it easy you could set it up locally - get it up and running in parallel ... with the new 'tower' two doors down the street ... then throw the switch and move west to Swanwick in IT 'tower' 2 in 2019. It only needs a 'room' - the rest is IT.
Aye, sounds dead easy setting up 2 "digital towers", with all facilities available at both, including the display equipment, remote switching capability, and redundancies for both.
Perhaps it'd be best to leave it to "Bodie & Doyle" rather than come up with such "innovative" schemes...
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Old 18th May 2017, 18:54
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Originally Posted by Islandlad
Which one are you? Bodie or Doyle? I think the "innovative" scheme is doing it at all. I was just considering the how. I'm sure it will make great TV as a project to follow - training all those FISOs
Now I'm really confused...what FISOs?!?
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Old 18th May 2017, 19:24
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Originally Posted by Islandlad
Just pulling your chain.

You clearly work at City. It would be interesting if you are able to tell us a little about the project. It is a first afterall. 2019 is not far away if that really is the move date.
Yanking of chain accepted.

It's not my place to reveal details, I'm sure a co-ordinated release of information will be forthcoming in the public domain in the not too distant future...should the rumour be correct.

Rumour networks are great in certain aspects - like the open sharing and generation of thought-provoking ideas and concepts - but these are based on conjecture.
However there are also downsides to such discussions, particularly for those people whose work might be affected...uncertainty, upheaval, etc.
It's not for me to be a moderator to anyone's thoughts, that is up to each poster. I'd merely suggest that before typing people ought to consider the people involved - no matter what the subject is.
I try to. I may not always be as understanding of people issues as, perhaps, I should be, but at least I try.
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Old 18th May 2017, 21:12
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I most certainly agree good egg.

The problem is that those who are involved in this sort of project are not going to answer questions about it, and that leaves the door open for those who think they have the measure of the situation.

Making blanket statements about what will happen doesn't help.
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Old 19th May 2017, 12:31
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This is a very busy and very particular and demanding piece of airspace. Seems a very strange place to pilot this.
Btw what happens if NATS and LCY part company. LCY can't outsource a control tower they don't have. Is this NATS power playing to keep the money rolling in? GIP owned EDI and LGW have both left NATS and given ATC out to third parties recently. Same owner as LCY.
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Old 19th May 2017, 13:04
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Remote air traffic control preparing for takeoff at London City airport

https://www.theguardian.com/business...n-city-airport


The sounds of the airport are also played over speakers, to make this virtual world more realistic - potentially noisier, in fact, than some insulated control rooms - after trials showed it helped controllers. “It sounds a bit silly pumping noise into a control room but it’s something they need to do the job,” Anderson added.


What a "genius" must have thought that having a noisier environment is going to make ATC performance better. Why do they think towers have sound-proofing?


"At night, the contours of the runway can be highlighted with graphics. In low light, visibility can be improved. And should cameras detect anything that is not authorised traffic – any four-pixel moving dot that could be anything from a passing helicopter to a drone – the system can automatically zoom in and track it, with a pop-up inset window on the video cityscape."


Yeah, assuming the cameras work of course.. that the video system does not fail.
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Old 19th May 2017, 13:35
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<<The sounds of the airport are also played over speakers, to make this virtual world more realistic - potentially noisier, in fact, than some insulated control rooms - after trials showed it helped controllers. “It sounds a bit silly pumping noise into a control room but it’s something they need to do the job,” Anderson added.>>

Really? What about major airfields where the Tower maybe some distance from the runway? I don't recall any extraneous noises at Heathrow Tower. If there were they were probably drowned out by internal noises.
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