FEAST oversight - Local or centralized in Eurocontrol?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Inside an RMZ!
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FEAST oversight - Local or centralized in Eurocontrol?
Greetings wise ones!
Can someone confirm something for me please?
Until very recently, I was under the impression that FEAST and all other such tests were administered through some form of a connection to a central 'server' in Eurocontrol 'HQ'. Using this method, "the European Organisation for the Safety of Air Navigation" could always look after the testing.
Other insights have lead me to believe otherwise. Among them some unanswered comments on forums such as these. I checked out FEAST | Eurocontrol, and indeed it seems that they deliver the entire software packaged to the training/testing organization, rather than merely a means to connect to the 'HQ'.
If this is indeed true, it would sure as hell explain why a training organization might very very very very very very very very very very very very very very easily get away with..........shall we call them.........."certain detours and shortcuts" in the "selection processes!"
Can someone confirm something for me please?
Until very recently, I was under the impression that FEAST and all other such tests were administered through some form of a connection to a central 'server' in Eurocontrol 'HQ'. Using this method, "the European Organisation for the Safety of Air Navigation" could always look after the testing.
Other insights have lead me to believe otherwise. Among them some unanswered comments on forums such as these. I checked out FEAST | Eurocontrol, and indeed it seems that they deliver the entire software packaged to the training/testing organization, rather than merely a means to connect to the 'HQ'.
If this is indeed true, it would sure as hell explain why a training organization might very very very very very very very very very very very very very very easily get away with..........shall we call them.........."certain detours and shortcuts" in the "selection processes!"
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Portugal
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm taking on February the FEAST at EUROCONTROL, so I did some research about this.
The thing is, for EUROCONTROL, you can only do the FEAST at Maastricht... Other companies use FEAST for their own training, so EUROCONTROL sends the material to them.
The test differs from place to place. For example, you can take a FEAST test where you live and you can pass with lower marks than if you took it at Maastricht, but you won't be able to use the FEAST that you have done outside Maastricht in EUROCONTROL.
The thing is, for EUROCONTROL, you can only do the FEAST at Maastricht... Other companies use FEAST for their own training, so EUROCONTROL sends the material to them.
The test differs from place to place. For example, you can take a FEAST test where you live and you can pass with lower marks than if you took it at Maastricht, but you won't be able to use the FEAST that you have done outside Maastricht in EUROCONTROL.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Romania
Age: 44
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The test package is delivered on-line; i.e. you browse feast web server which serves you the tests. The score is recorded online and is private. Ansps have different requirements , so you may pass with a lower score depending on the ansp requirements. Since eurocontrol selection is open to all eu and they pay your trip there it is more likely for them to have the best of the best, thus there is more likely for them to select someone who passes feast at maastricht rather than someone who passed it with an ansp.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Inside an RMZ!
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the answers so far.
I'm not talking about EUROCONTROL's own testing, nor brining into question their desires about finding the best of the best. Quite the opposite.
The fact that everyone can have their own standards, gives just about the answer that one can deduce through own conclusions!
PS. MNAsantos - Best of luck! Break a leg or few
I'm not talking about EUROCONTROL's own testing, nor brining into question their desires about finding the best of the best. Quite the opposite.
The fact that everyone can have their own standards, gives just about the answer that one can deduce through own conclusions!
PS. MNAsantos - Best of luck! Break a leg or few
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NZ
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mcstiofan
A selection process is just a way for an ANSP to attempt to ensure that the people they recruit will be able to become controllers. i.e. Cost.
Generally they aim at the best of the best to attempt this. Minimum risk. i.e Cost.
You need 20 controllers, you have a course planned for 24 trainees, your recruitment system says only 12 are suitable, so you slide along the scale to fill the course. What else would you do ?
No selection process is perfect. I suspect that today's failure rates are not much better than those of 40 years ago. (where my recruitment was four wise men asking questions).
It is just a filter and there is a degree of luck and location whether you get through. Even entry standards for Universities vary globally.
It is not an ICAO requirement to have passed a recruitment test to hold an ATC licence.
A selection process is just a way for an ANSP to attempt to ensure that the people they recruit will be able to become controllers. i.e. Cost.
Generally they aim at the best of the best to attempt this. Minimum risk. i.e Cost.
You need 20 controllers, you have a course planned for 24 trainees, your recruitment system says only 12 are suitable, so you slide along the scale to fill the course. What else would you do ?
No selection process is perfect. I suspect that today's failure rates are not much better than those of 40 years ago. (where my recruitment was four wise men asking questions).
It is just a filter and there is a degree of luck and location whether you get through. Even entry standards for Universities vary globally.
It is not an ICAO requirement to have passed a recruitment test to hold an ATC licence.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Inside an RMZ!
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks sheepless, I appreciate the info, but I'm fully familiar with what goes on 
My question had to do with testing oversight, rather than the testing itself. As may have been mentioned once or twice before in the past(the archives would have it), the ATC business in the former YU republics has been ridden with corruption for quite some time now. Ultimately it all comes down to who's your mother, father, uncle, brother...
Over the past few years, there's been more and more talk, that EUROCONTROL had in some or other way "fully taken over the testing", and that in order to get in, it was no longer enough simply knowing someone on the inside. Supposedly, everyone now had to truly pass FEAST and other tests.
Even though no one really believed this, there really wasn't much of an evidence to disprove the concept, except knowing that class after class, year after year, completions of new controller hirings were being advertised, yet there still weren't any public offerings for those jobs.
It was only in the very recent past that some comments on here, on a few similar discussion boards and some TV material, indicated that much like everyone suspected, there indeed was no "global" oversight by EUROCONTROL and that every ANSP can pretty much do as they please.
My question had to do with testing oversight, rather than the testing itself. As may have been mentioned once or twice before in the past(the archives would have it), the ATC business in the former YU republics has been ridden with corruption for quite some time now. Ultimately it all comes down to who's your mother, father, uncle, brother...
Over the past few years, there's been more and more talk, that EUROCONTROL had in some or other way "fully taken over the testing", and that in order to get in, it was no longer enough simply knowing someone on the inside. Supposedly, everyone now had to truly pass FEAST and other tests.
Even though no one really believed this, there really wasn't much of an evidence to disprove the concept, except knowing that class after class, year after year, completions of new controller hirings were being advertised, yet there still weren't any public offerings for those jobs.
It was only in the very recent past that some comments on here, on a few similar discussion boards and some TV material, indicated that much like everyone suspected, there indeed was no "global" oversight by EUROCONTROL and that every ANSP can pretty much do as they please.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Still not sure if you have grasped the concept to be honest.
An ITO or ANSP can, if they want, spend money and have the FEAST programme to evaluate their own trainee ATCOs. They do not have to.
If one ANSP want to set the bar at 98% or 2% that is up to them.
Why would an employer let another company choose their own trainees? They merely pay a fee to use FEAST.
Your suggestion is one of corruption at one ANSP if I get this right. This is not a FEAST issue.
An ITO or ANSP can, if they want, spend money and have the FEAST programme to evaluate their own trainee ATCOs. They do not have to.
If one ANSP want to set the bar at 98% or 2% that is up to them.
Why would an employer let another company choose their own trainees? They merely pay a fee to use FEAST.
Your suggestion is one of corruption at one ANSP if I get this right. This is not a FEAST issue.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Inside an RMZ!
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why would an employer let another company choose their own trainees? They merely pay a fee to use FEAST.
But to answer your question - Such a supposed method of testing is what was propagated around the media and the aviation community here, in order to make it seem that things were now "fair" and supposedly overlooked by a potent, authoritative body such as EUROCONTROL.
I never believed that it would change anything, and I know a lot of people who didn't either. Sadly, a lot did, and to this day have their hopes up! As it turns out from this thread, such a means of controlled and overlooked testing doesn't even exist. As you, among others, said, it's all done locally.
Your suggestion is one of corruption at one ANSP if I get this right. This is not a FEAST issue.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whether anyone would want to do it that way, is really a moot point....and not mine at all
But to answer your question - Such a supposed method of testing is what was propagated around the media and the aviation community here, in order to make it seem that things were now "fair" and supposedly overlooked by a potent, authoritative body such as EUROCONTROL.
I never believed that it would change anything, and I know a lot of people who didn't either. Sadly, a lot did, and to this day have their hopes up! As it turns out from this thread, such a means of controlled and overlooked testing doesn't even exist. As you, among others, said, it's all done locally.
Yes, you got it right. I never said it was a FEAST issue though. I merely inquired whether the FEAST "package" itself was something that you could get "off the shelf" or whether it was a highly networked and heavily controlled test/initiative. If the former, then we end up with the current situation. Had it been the latter, then I guess things would indeed be different.
But to answer your question - Such a supposed method of testing is what was propagated around the media and the aviation community here, in order to make it seem that things were now "fair" and supposedly overlooked by a potent, authoritative body such as EUROCONTROL.
I never believed that it would change anything, and I know a lot of people who didn't either. Sadly, a lot did, and to this day have their hopes up! As it turns out from this thread, such a means of controlled and overlooked testing doesn't even exist. As you, among others, said, it's all done locally.
Yes, you got it right. I never said it was a FEAST issue though. I merely inquired whether the FEAST "package" itself was something that you could get "off the shelf" or whether it was a highly networked and heavily controlled test/initiative. If the former, then we end up with the current situation. Had it been the latter, then I guess things would indeed be different.
Are you saying that Eurocontrol are doing the testing and not doing as asked to do? (Apologies for the dumb questions)
Sorry that it is not great wherever you are. Where are you exactly??
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Inside an RMZ!
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The off the shelf is a bit of an ironic methaphor - When I wrote it, I meant it wholly in the sense that you describe.
I'm in the land of Serbistan
Thanks for the thoughts, appreciated they are!
I'm in the land of Serbistan
Thanks for the thoughts, appreciated they are!
