Are you still using land after in UK??
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Italy
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are you still using land after in UK??
I would like just to know if this procedure is still applied in UK important airports, and if UK ATCOs are so satisfied about eventual misunderstanding with standard clearance to land. Thanks for kind cooperation!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Italy
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So you mean that UK ATCOs usually use this kind of procedure in EGLL or EGKK for example?? I know that it should be just a recovery procedure in case of loss of separation between Landing aicraft, doesn't it?
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: LHR/EGLL
Age: 45
Posts: 4,392
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, at Heathrow we only have either the standard landing clearance or Land After.
Also, it really shouldn't be used at the last minute as a 'get out' to pass the separation responsibility to the pilot. It's something that should be given in advance. In my opinion the worst thing an ATCO can do is wait until an aircraft is over the numbers and then blurt out 'Land After'.
Also, it really shouldn't be used at the last minute as a 'get out' to pass the separation responsibility to the pilot. It's something that should be given in advance. In my opinion the worst thing an ATCO can do is wait until an aircraft is over the numbers and then blurt out 'Land After'.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Way north
Age: 47
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In Denmark it's used at the controllers discretion. Both land after preeceding landing... as well as land after departing....
If you don't have those fancy rapid exit taxiways it helps keeping traffic running safely and expeditious.
It especially works very well with helicopters 😊 don't need much room for "sufficient runway available" 😉
If you don't have those fancy rapid exit taxiways it helps keeping traffic running safely and expeditious.
It especially works very well with helicopters 😊 don't need much room for "sufficient runway available" 😉
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Italy
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In fact this is the real reason of my question!! In Italy we have this "strange" procedure, not ICAO approved, only in LIRF and LIMC, but ATCOs are not so satisfied to apply it, because a lot of companies don't know this kind of procedure, and because it could cause some misunderstandings about the REAL responsible in case of two acfts landed on the same runway. When I tried to use land after just saying "land after the b737", a lot of pilots answered me "cleared to land after...", and I don't like so much....
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and I would like it to be allowed for AFIS too.
For UK AFIS to ask aircraft to taxi to holding points is weird.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: not the W.P.
Age: 70
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I remember it an AFISO does not issue landing clearances so the land after procedure would never be a runner. However, I've flown into several UK AFISO airfields where the ownership of the runway seems to be a matter of confusion in the tower.
No question of the FISO passing instructions to an aircraft in the air!
When the conditions which allow ATC to issue a 'land after' exist at an AFIS site, in order to avoid unnecessary go-arounds it would be useful if the FISO could say something like 'one about to vacate, land at your discretion'.
The fundamental rule being one on the runway at a time, if an aircraft has reported 'final' and there is still one on the runway, all the FISO can say at present is 'the runway is occupied', hence it is up to the pilot to decide whether to go-around straight away or continue in the hope the runway will be clear before he touches down.
The FISO should have a good enough view of the runway to be able to judge if the first aircraft will vacate before the second has to decide whether to go-around, hence the advice of the FISO will assist the pilot in making this decision.
NB: If the pilot of the second aircraft elects to continue and lands without a 'land at your discretion', the official view of SARG is that this requires an MOR to be raised.
When the conditions which allow ATC to issue a 'land after' exist at an AFIS site, in order to avoid unnecessary go-arounds it would be useful if the FISO could say something like 'one about to vacate, land at your discretion'.
The fundamental rule being one on the runway at a time, if an aircraft has reported 'final' and there is still one on the runway, all the FISO can say at present is 'the runway is occupied', hence it is up to the pilot to decide whether to go-around straight away or continue in the hope the runway will be clear before he touches down.
The FISO should have a good enough view of the runway to be able to judge if the first aircraft will vacate before the second has to decide whether to go-around, hence the advice of the FISO will assist the pilot in making this decision.
NB: If the pilot of the second aircraft elects to continue and lands without a 'land at your discretion', the official view of SARG is that this requires an MOR to be raised.
Last edited by chevvron; 17th May 2015 at 17:47.
I've amended my posting to make it a bit clearer.
Don't forget, with one exception, FISO airfields are all VFR only so pilots should be able to self separate if they have a previous landing aircraft on the runway ahead of them.
Don't forget, with one exception, FISO airfields are all VFR only so pilots should be able to self separate if they have a previous landing aircraft on the runway ahead of them.
