Opportunities for RAF/RN Air Traffic Control Officers
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Opportunities for RAF/RN Air Traffic Control Officers
Can anyone help a RAF officer friend of mine.He is still in the RAF and leaves within the next 4 months aged 38. He has a CAA ADV/ADI rating and has had no response from the 28 airports to which he has applied in his attempts to get a job or simply experience.
Apart from sending his CV to all and sundry, what does he need to do to break into civil ATC.Should he take an APS or an APP rating course ? I have told him to offer his services as an ATSA and wait for an internal vacancy but I think he is too arrogant to do that !!
Any advice would be appreciated.
Safeskys are actually bidding for a contract which would be well suited for ex-service ATCOs. They will only need ACS or APS ratings (not ADV/ADI) and they will be 'sponsored' for this rating if necessary as a radar rating is essential. Obviously it's not at an airfield, but if I say it's in Wales, you can probably guess where it is!
Course there's nothing to stop ex NATS en-route controllers who've 'failed' at Swanwick from applying too.
Course there's nothing to stop ex NATS en-route controllers who've 'failed' at Swanwick from applying too.
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Isn't it the case that the number of ex military controllers that are now in the civvy environment, are actually causing the problem?
With the military cutbacks in recent years,and the number of ex-military using their redundancy on CAA licences,this has blocked up most potential vacancies that would have been available in the past..IMHO
With the military cutbacks in recent years,and the number of ex-military using their redundancy on CAA licences,this has blocked up most potential vacancies that would have been available in the past..IMHO
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I am sure that his "I am an ex-RAF officer and very important" attitude will stand him in good stead when he is signing on at the dole office.
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"If he's an officer, yes; if he's an NCO, no!" brilliant answer HD. Couldn't agree more.
I would suggest he does the APP or APS course as he would then be a far more attractive option to a SATCO.
"And, anyway, don't they cover such stuff during resettlement training?" answer is no they do not help other than a £2000 which could be used to offset the cost of the civil courses. At least that was the case for me a few years ago.
The resettlement side was a complete waste of time for me. I went for APP and ADV in 2008 and with the two qualifications was offered a couple of jobs. Before my training I contacted several SATCOs and asked what they would have liked me to get and could I visit theirs towers for a famil on the civil side of things. They were more than keen to help which was great for me.
The courses are expensive but you have to speculate to accumulate, that is what some wise person once told me.
I would suggest he does the APP or APS course as he would then be a far more attractive option to a SATCO.
"And, anyway, don't they cover such stuff during resettlement training?" answer is no they do not help other than a £2000 which could be used to offset the cost of the civil courses. At least that was the case for me a few years ago.
The resettlement side was a complete waste of time for me. I went for APP and ADV in 2008 and with the two qualifications was offered a couple of jobs. Before my training I contacted several SATCOs and asked what they would have liked me to get and could I visit theirs towers for a famil on the civil side of things. They were more than keen to help which was great for me.
The courses are expensive but you have to speculate to accumulate, that is what some wise person once told me.
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It’s a bit harsh saying all Commissioned RAF controllers are arrogant, I like to think that I have the best interests of those that work with me and those under my command. That said we do have some real ‘characters’ so to speak, usually at each extreme end of the spectrum, the quickly promoted Sqn Ldr who thinks he is an expert in your field and the old Flt Lt who blames everyone but himself for missing out on promotion (I’m the latter but without the blaming other people bit). I find it’s best to treat them with the contempt they deserve.
Onto the OP’s question in hand, I think it speaks volumes that you, as his friend, point out that he is too arrogant to consider an ATSA position; I wonder, have you given him some constructive advice in this regard? How is he pitching himself, has he been LEO, UTO, Safety Management in the past? If so he must civilianise that aspect of his CV. He needs to visit, see ATC Units in person, network etc, you can’t just send your CV to all and sundry without any other contact, he is up against people who may have been laying the groundwork for a year or more.
What is his covering letter like? Does his covering letter (and CV) demonstrate he has the necessary professional competencies (remember HR as well as SATCOs will read these)? It needs to be carefully worded, with the best will in the world it would be difficult to sell you abilities if you have been based at one of our ‘less dynamic’ bases for years. Has he considered FTRS? There are a few about.
Remember most SATCOs know exactly what being a mil controller entails (either through personal experience or the experience of those that work for him/her), you can’t bull**** them.
I wish him luck.
Onto the OP’s question in hand, I think it speaks volumes that you, as his friend, point out that he is too arrogant to consider an ATSA position; I wonder, have you given him some constructive advice in this regard? How is he pitching himself, has he been LEO, UTO, Safety Management in the past? If so he must civilianise that aspect of his CV. He needs to visit, see ATC Units in person, network etc, you can’t just send your CV to all and sundry without any other contact, he is up against people who may have been laying the groundwork for a year or more.
What is his covering letter like? Does his covering letter (and CV) demonstrate he has the necessary professional competencies (remember HR as well as SATCOs will read these)? It needs to be carefully worded, with the best will in the world it would be difficult to sell you abilities if you have been based at one of our ‘less dynamic’ bases for years. Has he considered FTRS? There are a few about.
Remember most SATCOs know exactly what being a mil controller entails (either through personal experience or the experience of those that work for him/her), you can’t bull**** them.
I wish him luck.
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I agree that your friend needs to pitch his CV very much on how the skills and experience he acquired during his military career can benefit a potential civilian employer. He should avoid over emphasising his officer background which could create a wrong impression. I have worked with many ex-military controllers and have in most cases found them to be professional and good team members. However, in other cases, the officer training seems to have created individuals with an over optimistic view of their own abilities which can antagonise colleagues very quickly.
I suggest an Aerodrome rating without a Surveillance rating will not generate much interest from potential employers. However to get the necessary qualification will involve taking an expensive bet on the future.
If he really wants to stay operational, he should be prepared to accept an ATSA job as a way of getting on the inside and then later on possibly getting financial assistance from his employer to do a course for a Surveillance rating. He will be able to find out if that path is available by having a chat with the unit SATCO. Alternatively, his ATC experience could be useful to an organisation like NATS in an office based role.
I suggest an Aerodrome rating without a Surveillance rating will not generate much interest from potential employers. However to get the necessary qualification will involve taking an expensive bet on the future.
If he really wants to stay operational, he should be prepared to accept an ATSA job as a way of getting on the inside and then later on possibly getting financial assistance from his employer to do a course for a Surveillance rating. He will be able to find out if that path is available by having a chat with the unit SATCO. Alternatively, his ATC experience could be useful to an organisation like NATS in an office based role.
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What makes you think that he could get a position as an ATSA?
Most potential employers would much rather have a young keen and enthusiastic young person who perhaps has a PPL, there are many such young people at my flying club and who they can train and mold the way that they want them rather than a middle aged ex-military man with "issues".
Most potential employers would much rather have a young keen and enthusiastic young person who perhaps has a PPL, there are many such young people at my flying club and who they can train and mold the way that they want them rather than a middle aged ex-military man with "issues".
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Saying he is 'too arrogant to accept an ATSA' and 'be prepared to accept a position as an ATSA' is very different from saying 'I think he would get a position as an ATSA'
The OP asked for constructive advice, maybe that's all contributors were doing.
The OP asked for constructive advice, maybe that's all contributors were doing.
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Thanks everyone
Thanks for all your advice. He is reading pprune.
He contacted the boss of Safeskys (who turned out to be ex-RAF) and after a long chat he has offered him an opportunity with training, so he is now on the ladder.He will study for an APS, sponsored by the company.A result.
The upshot seems to be that ADI / ADV is not enough, one needs an APP or APS as well to get the attention of prospective employers.
Oh, and he denies being arrogant as he started in the RAF as an airman, was commissioned from the rank of sergeant so he said “e was everso umble !!”
Once again, on behalf of my friend, thank you for taking the time and the trouble to help him
He contacted the boss of Safeskys (who turned out to be ex-RAF) and after a long chat he has offered him an opportunity with training, so he is now on the ladder.He will study for an APS, sponsored by the company.A result.
The upshot seems to be that ADI / ADV is not enough, one needs an APP or APS as well to get the attention of prospective employers.
Oh, and he denies being arrogant as he started in the RAF as an airman, was commissioned from the rank of sergeant so he said “e was everso umble !!”
Once again, on behalf of my friend, thank you for taking the time and the trouble to help him
HD
Bren I assume you are joking 
! Some of your favourite workmates were ex- 'Hofficers' - Bunny, John Smeath, Norman Whitelock, Derek Harriss etc etc, even little old me! Blimey I hear you cry!
! Some of your favourite workmates were ex- 'Hofficers' - Bunny, John Smeath, Norman Whitelock, Derek Harriss etc etc, even little old me! Blimey I hear you cry!
