Qatar (Doha) ATC for new Airport
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Quite naturally, life anywhere is subjective.
However, given that Qatar is expanding at rather a phenominal rate, quite literally on the heels of the national carrier ... I would suggest that derisive comments to the like;- 'but youre still in Doha' - possibly says more about the individual than it actually does about living here.
Doha is small and burgeoning, but Dubai or Abu Dhabi it isnt. Know that, understand that and then move on your decision making process. Many people have been told this time, and time again prior to their arrival ... but then still whack away at the 'ol donkey that it isnt one of the two afore-mentioned after their arrival ... as if they had been deceived, blinded by shiny shiny ... wakkawakkadingdong ... OH MAN!!!!! Good Lord!!
OMDB and OMAA evolved earlier than Qatar/Doha ... so quite obviously there will be a natural 'catch up' area.
That stated, in Doha there is much to do and is ever evolving and with a number of other well known middle east destinations geographically extremely close ... any 'short-comings' you feel Qatar might have can be remedied by a quick visit to one of the other destinations.
However, given that Qatar is expanding at rather a phenominal rate, quite literally on the heels of the national carrier ... I would suggest that derisive comments to the like;- 'but youre still in Doha' - possibly says more about the individual than it actually does about living here.
Doha is small and burgeoning, but Dubai or Abu Dhabi it isnt. Know that, understand that and then move on your decision making process. Many people have been told this time, and time again prior to their arrival ... but then still whack away at the 'ol donkey that it isnt one of the two afore-mentioned after their arrival ... as if they had been deceived, blinded by shiny shiny ... wakkawakkadingdong ... OH MAN!!!!! Good Lord!!
OMDB and OMAA evolved earlier than Qatar/Doha ... so quite obviously there will be a natural 'catch up' area.
That stated, in Doha there is much to do and is ever evolving and with a number of other well known middle east destinations geographically extremely close ... any 'short-comings' you feel Qatar might have can be remedied by a quick visit to one of the other destinations.
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TR, short answer -yes.
Seen it take from within the same day to a day later.
Multiple Exit Permits are also available.
The Qatari government has declared the practise of exit permits archaic and has indicated that it will make it redundant. When this will come into effect I do not know.
It is not an obstacle, other than having to simply sign a form.
Seen it take from within the same day to a day later.
Multiple Exit Permits are also available.
The Qatari government has declared the practise of exit permits archaic and has indicated that it will make it redundant. When this will come into effect I do not know.
It is not an obstacle, other than having to simply sign a form.
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Hi All, what is the requirement to get a look in for an approach slot at Doha. Please PM if you can spare the time. I've had multiple approach ratings as well as Tower and dual rated along with Arrivals/Enroute and most ratings in fairly high density/complexity locations in a few countries.
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at times the busiest app/area unit in the gulf
From working to the east of this airspace, I second this statement. I have nothing but respect for what these guys achieve under the conditions in which they achieve them. Very impressive.
Last edited by allrounder99; 13th Aug 2014 at 15:13. Reason: more to add
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New Airport
Hey guys,
How has the new airport been going regarding recruitment?
Are there more people per watch now? Are there loads of new trainees going through the system causing backlog etc?
Have the new procedures stalled or helped people to validate?
Feel free to PM if you like and thanks
How has the new airport been going regarding recruitment?
Are there more people per watch now? Are there loads of new trainees going through the system causing backlog etc?
Have the new procedures stalled or helped people to validate?
Feel free to PM if you like and thanks
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Mate it's all hit and miss. They had all the guys parked on the eastern apron of the eastern RWY and same for the west. Problem is although there are SIDS for each RWY it creates a massive problem for radar cause lots of guys of the west RWY have to cross extended centre line of the east cause of the flight plan routing. Last week they tried guys to depart off the primary runway regardless where yet were parked but customers not happy. We mostly 2 guys on a shift but sometimes it's not enough cause it means 6 hrs and no break... But also depends on how many on leave. Supposedly new recruits but have not seen them. Interesting place to work to be honest. Living wise.... Ummm that one still figuring out.
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waxo, surely you cannot be serious... 6 hours without a break!? Is this in Tower or Approach??
As already asked, what's the status of the old airport now? And are the QCAA solely in charge of recruitment again, as before? The Vacancies page on their website seems a bit "static" to say the least.
As already asked, what's the status of the old airport now? And are the QCAA solely in charge of recruitment again, as before? The Vacancies page on their website seems a bit "static" to say the least.
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Qatar (Doha) ATC for new Airport
We have the odd toilet breaks... QCAA hires yeah... Old airport still operating. Military, college and Gulf Helicopters... Quite busy at times with mainly VFR...
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Qatar current affairs
Here is the latest on Doha..
In the past year approximately 12-14 controllers have arrived for Approach training and qualification in Doha. Since September 2013 (same year period) 12-14 controllers have left the operation.
Current APP staff numbers less than 14. NATS was hired to develop procedures and airspace for Qatar. They recommend our Approach sector should have 30+ qualified APP controllers. QCAA management believes our current staffing is good!
Serco tried to staff this unit in Sept. 2013. Although they hire hundreds of controllers every year for the Middle East they couldn't even find 5 controllers interested in Doha because of the package offered. Serco is now gone.
We currently work Day/Afternoon/midnight and one day off which we are now on standby for. No six days on / four days off here mate.
You are only allowed to leave the country on holidays 3 times a year, "package condition." If you want to take leave from a midnight shift management charges you 2 days leave!
If you have children forget this contract, the allowance for education is lowest in the middle east.
QCAA supplies housing instead of giving a suitable allowance like most contracts. If you insist on an allowance they pay half of what a pilot at Qatar Airways receives. Average housing cost for reasonable accommodation is 15,000 - 18,000 riyal and that is very moderate housing. QCAA allowance is 6,500 riyal.
Be warned our last couple of new hires (start of 2014) were told compensation would be "X" riyals/month and when they arrived they are being paid lower than agreed upon.
Qatar has the highest cost of living in the region, much higher than Dubai and yet the package compensates less than Dubai. Workload/ time in position/days of work are much more here than other notable contracts in the area. I have worked at a few of them in my extensive career in the middle east.
Why do some of us stay you ask then.. Everyone has their own reasons, for some it is just easier to stay then job hunt however many controllers here are looking now. We have just lost 3-5 in the past 2 weeks.
If you have any offers any where else in the world you would be wise not to even consider coming here. If you come anyways you'll remember this haunting advice shortly after your arrival.
QCAA really needs a complete overhaul of its management, package and operation. This is known by many in the region.
In the past year approximately 12-14 controllers have arrived for Approach training and qualification in Doha. Since September 2013 (same year period) 12-14 controllers have left the operation.
Current APP staff numbers less than 14. NATS was hired to develop procedures and airspace for Qatar. They recommend our Approach sector should have 30+ qualified APP controllers. QCAA management believes our current staffing is good!
Serco tried to staff this unit in Sept. 2013. Although they hire hundreds of controllers every year for the Middle East they couldn't even find 5 controllers interested in Doha because of the package offered. Serco is now gone.
We currently work Day/Afternoon/midnight and one day off which we are now on standby for. No six days on / four days off here mate.
You are only allowed to leave the country on holidays 3 times a year, "package condition." If you want to take leave from a midnight shift management charges you 2 days leave!
If you have children forget this contract, the allowance for education is lowest in the middle east.
QCAA supplies housing instead of giving a suitable allowance like most contracts. If you insist on an allowance they pay half of what a pilot at Qatar Airways receives. Average housing cost for reasonable accommodation is 15,000 - 18,000 riyal and that is very moderate housing. QCAA allowance is 6,500 riyal.
Be warned our last couple of new hires (start of 2014) were told compensation would be "X" riyals/month and when they arrived they are being paid lower than agreed upon.
Qatar has the highest cost of living in the region, much higher than Dubai and yet the package compensates less than Dubai. Workload/ time in position/days of work are much more here than other notable contracts in the area. I have worked at a few of them in my extensive career in the middle east.
Why do some of us stay you ask then.. Everyone has their own reasons, for some it is just easier to stay then job hunt however many controllers here are looking now. We have just lost 3-5 in the past 2 weeks.
If you have any offers any where else in the world you would be wise not to even consider coming here. If you come anyways you'll remember this haunting advice shortly after your arrival.
QCAA really needs a complete overhaul of its management, package and operation. This is known by many in the region.
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Ok, things aren't great at the moment - but let's not exaggerate!
12-14 people haven't left.... Approximately 7 have, 4 of them recruited by serco. 2 of those only planned to be here for 1 year and the other 2 never validated. Out of the other 3 recruited by QCAA 2 had been here at least 3 years. It's also worth noting these have all left from radar... Nobody has the left the Tower
Ths standby on roster has been cancelled.
The leaving the country 3 times also incorrect. I don't think anybody would be here if that's the case... It's true you have to take your leave (45days) in 3 blocks but with casual days, shift swaps, special leave and the option to take unpaid leave if you require you can easily leave several times a year.
I would agree that the school fees do not cover the cost required and that this needs to be improved and the housing allowance is way below what you would require to live somewhere half decent. But "most" people are satisfied with the accommodation provided by the company.
Package
35000/40000 QAR (depending on what you negotiate - unfair)
Plus 5000 QAR bonus paid dependent on days leave taken in a month.
45 days leave
School fees for up to 3 kids schooled in Qatar up to 25000 QAR/child
Furnished accommodation
One flight home a year
Negotiations are apparently ongoing for an improvement in package to increase staff levels and stop existing people leaving - but these have been ongoing for about 6 months.
It is true that two radar controllers are about to leave but not 3-5. People are threatening if things don't improve management know this and hopefully will take action.
8 news starters to arrive in OCT tower radar ratio unknown.
The rest of what you say is correct, it is not as structured as the UK and Qatar can be a challenge to live in... But who doesn't like a challenge?
12-14 people haven't left.... Approximately 7 have, 4 of them recruited by serco. 2 of those only planned to be here for 1 year and the other 2 never validated. Out of the other 3 recruited by QCAA 2 had been here at least 3 years. It's also worth noting these have all left from radar... Nobody has the left the Tower
Ths standby on roster has been cancelled.
The leaving the country 3 times also incorrect. I don't think anybody would be here if that's the case... It's true you have to take your leave (45days) in 3 blocks but with casual days, shift swaps, special leave and the option to take unpaid leave if you require you can easily leave several times a year.
I would agree that the school fees do not cover the cost required and that this needs to be improved and the housing allowance is way below what you would require to live somewhere half decent. But "most" people are satisfied with the accommodation provided by the company.
Package
35000/40000 QAR (depending on what you negotiate - unfair)
Plus 5000 QAR bonus paid dependent on days leave taken in a month.
45 days leave
School fees for up to 3 kids schooled in Qatar up to 25000 QAR/child
Furnished accommodation
One flight home a year
Negotiations are apparently ongoing for an improvement in package to increase staff levels and stop existing people leaving - but these have been ongoing for about 6 months.
It is true that two radar controllers are about to leave but not 3-5. People are threatening if things don't improve management know this and hopefully will take action.
8 news starters to arrive in OCT tower radar ratio unknown.
The rest of what you say is correct, it is not as structured as the UK and Qatar can be a challenge to live in... But who doesn't like a challenge?
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Agree with PaknGap.
Serco's contract was only for a 12 month period at the outset. That, had all 5 stayed, would now have reached its expiration date. Naturally the option to stay on was always a contract Rhyder .... of the five, one is still here. The one that is still here is now I believe employed by QCAA.
The two days leave for a night shift refers to casual leave. The night shift starts at 10pm and terminates at 6am the following day. Thus, if, once the roster is distributed and then some one wishes to take annual leave over that night shift period ... well the individual would firstly be late in his/her submission of leave as a two month period prior to leave commencement is required .... for obvious reasons ... and in order to ensure minimum disruption, the rostering officer would arrange it from day beginning new cycle ... NOT over the night shift. If, for whatever reason the person requires leave (annual) to fall over the night shift ... it will just be then one (1) day, not two (2) ... so for example, if the person wants annual leave that will terminate on a wednesday ... and that wednesady happens to be the night he/she will go on night shift at 10pm that evening .... it will just be for the wednesday and not the thursday as well. If however the person wants annual leave that will incorporate days either side of the night shift start and termination time ... then quite obviously it will be a chronological issue of two days ... NOT because the night shift falls over two days ... simply because it will be the two days out of how many the person wishes to take leave. This is if it can even be done at all .. remember this is using an example of leave request post roster 'publication' so a fair amount of shuffling about will be incurred. However, casual leave (short-term notice leave if you will) is probably what the person is referring to ... is indeed drawn from by 2 (two) days ... why?? ... well .... the shift starts on day 1 (one) at 10pm and ends on day 2 (two) at 6am ... so two (2) days ...??.... not quite getting the problem there?? It is understood that it is one shift - certainly ... however, QCAA requires via its HR that calendar work days be approached chronologically - not per shift or shift cycle ... as explained earlier.
Currently, I would far prefer that QCAA provides the housing. They are able to negotiate from a strength perspective and normally this would entail substantial discounts in rent per unit. Negotiating as an individual is normally from a position of weakness ... and it does NOT differ in Dubai as I know of several people who did negotiate on their own and ended up living a nightmarish year there before moving to another compound. This naturally does NOT follow that this will happen to everyone ... but the risk is most definitely relevant. Its the old supply/demand model applied here.
The accommodation in Doha now is between 4 to 7 bedroom villa's ... depending on which compound you choose, each with a clubhouse and pool and covered parking. The newish compound has thus far proven, I believe, to be a bit of a disappointment in terms of maintenance as everything is contracted out. In addition;- the clubhouse, though impressive in size, is yet un-equipped ... so no gym or other leisure equipment .... but ... this was a known factor to those that chose that compound. In any event, it will I have no doubt, improve at that compound over time.
Those of us that own homes know that as a home owner the one constant ... ANYWHERE in the world ... is maintenance ... so ... why would it be any different here. The difference here is all you have to do when you want anything .... is complete a form ... all on site and normally once completed, within that same day the issue is resolved. Is it always the best workmanship ...?? ... probably not .... but then you have the unbelievable option of getting them back and repairing or replacing it at all again .... FREE!!! Do not be fooled by a common-place statement I have heard here that goes "Yes ... but it is rather odd if you are used to a higher standard" I assure you ... the folk that normally make statements such as that ... believe it beneath them to complete those forms to have something repaired or replaced ...again ...FREE!!! Thankfully , most of these like minded individuals have left the country ... there are still remnants though.
It is also worth pointing out that the gratuity here is quite simple .... 1 full months salary (as per your contract) for every year worked up to a maximum of ten years ... based on the most recent salary at your time of resignation. The casual leave available per year is seven days (7) .. and is in addition to the forty five (45) annual leave that is availed to you ... so a total of fifty two (52) per year. The leave that you do not use at the end of the fiscal year can be en-cashed for its QCAA daily rate. Your annual ticket home can also be en-cashed.
Essentially, and I truly have walloped this poor old horse to death. When you come across here it is normally .... NORMALLY as an experienced controller ... hence .... and I am going out on a limb here ....also an adult. The most magnificent tool as an ADULT we have is the power of CHOICE. Listen to what your colleagues already here tell you, listen closely ... visit Doha ... for heavens sake watch it all unfold daily and nightly on FlightRadar24 ..... with voice !!! When you commit and discover it is not to your liking or you have bitten off too much .... well ... I refer you to the fact that you are an adult and there is never any guarantees in Life.
Short of sounding gaudily testosterone driven ... Doha is NOT for the faint hearted. To extrapolate on that is akin to asking why do and how often do clouds change shape .... the variables are numerous and definitely station specific. However , suffice it to say, in short - if your situational awareness is not of the holistic nature and your multi-tasking is very rigid, in that it is regimented by airspace specificity and an ATFM unit ... well ... my generic advice would be, revisit your decision about Doha Radar. I cannot talk for Doha Aerodrome Control. If you are however, somewhat jaded by rigidity and believe a challenge the answer ... definitely consider Doha Radar!!
I have used this analogy many times before ... when you buy a home or a car (considered the two greatest expenses for the average income earner) ... you are normally very discerning are you not, on occasion even a tad anal ?? .... viewing many homes, cars ... going through the stats, maintenance issues, past, existing problems, neighbourhood, projection etc, etc ..... ad-infinitum ... so WHY ......WHY ... would you be any less discerning (or anal if you are so inclined) with possibly THE most important decision of your life ..... changing employers ... especially (for most ) from one of a guaranteed pension and job security to one where there is no real guarantee of permanent employ????!!!??? Yet many are surprisingly cavalier about this very decision .....
Do I believe we should have a full review of our current package here in Doha?? ... ABSOLUTELY .... and I base this exclusively on that fact that the current growth, both Macro and Micro ... in all sectors ... Industrial, Technical, Scientific ... etc, etc ..... is explosive and I assure you ... never before seen. It is magnified exponentially by the size of Qatar ... it is a small sliver type thumb of property that quite frankly probably even has the local Qatari's baffled as to the economic juggernaut they are riding. Thus the aviation sector is beyond surging ... it is near comet like in its growth .... in all aspects. So as you can imagine ... the sustainable infrastructure ..... essentially us and many others ... always seem to be playing catch-up. The ATC staff that meets that demand, work extremely hard when on shift ... often in complex and demanding situations ... and do so with determination and pride. I have never seen a group of controllers and assistants, both male and female ... be so accommodating to the many "ASKs" of aviation ... but also be so successful at their implementation. They deserve true recognition for that ... which they do currently get in a competitive package in GCC terms ... but it still needs review and finessing to honour these men and women for the commitment they have, are and will show to this rapid growing aviation industry. My bias is probably hugely on display here ... however, from my 12 years experience here, I believe I can safely say ... that although we may not in pure numbers move bigger traffic figures than Dubai (many technical reason apply) ... but per controller I am convinced we work substantially harder!! I do however, believe that one day ... this will be THE place to work in the ME.
Serco's contract was only for a 12 month period at the outset. That, had all 5 stayed, would now have reached its expiration date. Naturally the option to stay on was always a contract Rhyder .... of the five, one is still here. The one that is still here is now I believe employed by QCAA.
The two days leave for a night shift refers to casual leave. The night shift starts at 10pm and terminates at 6am the following day. Thus, if, once the roster is distributed and then some one wishes to take annual leave over that night shift period ... well the individual would firstly be late in his/her submission of leave as a two month period prior to leave commencement is required .... for obvious reasons ... and in order to ensure minimum disruption, the rostering officer would arrange it from day beginning new cycle ... NOT over the night shift. If, for whatever reason the person requires leave (annual) to fall over the night shift ... it will just be then one (1) day, not two (2) ... so for example, if the person wants annual leave that will terminate on a wednesday ... and that wednesady happens to be the night he/she will go on night shift at 10pm that evening .... it will just be for the wednesday and not the thursday as well. If however the person wants annual leave that will incorporate days either side of the night shift start and termination time ... then quite obviously it will be a chronological issue of two days ... NOT because the night shift falls over two days ... simply because it will be the two days out of how many the person wishes to take leave. This is if it can even be done at all .. remember this is using an example of leave request post roster 'publication' so a fair amount of shuffling about will be incurred. However, casual leave (short-term notice leave if you will) is probably what the person is referring to ... is indeed drawn from by 2 (two) days ... why?? ... well .... the shift starts on day 1 (one) at 10pm and ends on day 2 (two) at 6am ... so two (2) days ...??.... not quite getting the problem there?? It is understood that it is one shift - certainly ... however, QCAA requires via its HR that calendar work days be approached chronologically - not per shift or shift cycle ... as explained earlier.
Currently, I would far prefer that QCAA provides the housing. They are able to negotiate from a strength perspective and normally this would entail substantial discounts in rent per unit. Negotiating as an individual is normally from a position of weakness ... and it does NOT differ in Dubai as I know of several people who did negotiate on their own and ended up living a nightmarish year there before moving to another compound. This naturally does NOT follow that this will happen to everyone ... but the risk is most definitely relevant. Its the old supply/demand model applied here.
The accommodation in Doha now is between 4 to 7 bedroom villa's ... depending on which compound you choose, each with a clubhouse and pool and covered parking. The newish compound has thus far proven, I believe, to be a bit of a disappointment in terms of maintenance as everything is contracted out. In addition;- the clubhouse, though impressive in size, is yet un-equipped ... so no gym or other leisure equipment .... but ... this was a known factor to those that chose that compound. In any event, it will I have no doubt, improve at that compound over time.
Those of us that own homes know that as a home owner the one constant ... ANYWHERE in the world ... is maintenance ... so ... why would it be any different here. The difference here is all you have to do when you want anything .... is complete a form ... all on site and normally once completed, within that same day the issue is resolved. Is it always the best workmanship ...?? ... probably not .... but then you have the unbelievable option of getting them back and repairing or replacing it at all again .... FREE!!! Do not be fooled by a common-place statement I have heard here that goes "Yes ... but it is rather odd if you are used to a higher standard" I assure you ... the folk that normally make statements such as that ... believe it beneath them to complete those forms to have something repaired or replaced ...again ...FREE!!! Thankfully , most of these like minded individuals have left the country ... there are still remnants though.
It is also worth pointing out that the gratuity here is quite simple .... 1 full months salary (as per your contract) for every year worked up to a maximum of ten years ... based on the most recent salary at your time of resignation. The casual leave available per year is seven days (7) .. and is in addition to the forty five (45) annual leave that is availed to you ... so a total of fifty two (52) per year. The leave that you do not use at the end of the fiscal year can be en-cashed for its QCAA daily rate. Your annual ticket home can also be en-cashed.
Essentially, and I truly have walloped this poor old horse to death. When you come across here it is normally .... NORMALLY as an experienced controller ... hence .... and I am going out on a limb here ....also an adult. The most magnificent tool as an ADULT we have is the power of CHOICE. Listen to what your colleagues already here tell you, listen closely ... visit Doha ... for heavens sake watch it all unfold daily and nightly on FlightRadar24 ..... with voice !!! When you commit and discover it is not to your liking or you have bitten off too much .... well ... I refer you to the fact that you are an adult and there is never any guarantees in Life.
Short of sounding gaudily testosterone driven ... Doha is NOT for the faint hearted. To extrapolate on that is akin to asking why do and how often do clouds change shape .... the variables are numerous and definitely station specific. However , suffice it to say, in short - if your situational awareness is not of the holistic nature and your multi-tasking is very rigid, in that it is regimented by airspace specificity and an ATFM unit ... well ... my generic advice would be, revisit your decision about Doha Radar. I cannot talk for Doha Aerodrome Control. If you are however, somewhat jaded by rigidity and believe a challenge the answer ... definitely consider Doha Radar!!
I have used this analogy many times before ... when you buy a home or a car (considered the two greatest expenses for the average income earner) ... you are normally very discerning are you not, on occasion even a tad anal ?? .... viewing many homes, cars ... going through the stats, maintenance issues, past, existing problems, neighbourhood, projection etc, etc ..... ad-infinitum ... so WHY ......WHY ... would you be any less discerning (or anal if you are so inclined) with possibly THE most important decision of your life ..... changing employers ... especially (for most ) from one of a guaranteed pension and job security to one where there is no real guarantee of permanent employ????!!!??? Yet many are surprisingly cavalier about this very decision .....
Do I believe we should have a full review of our current package here in Doha?? ... ABSOLUTELY .... and I base this exclusively on that fact that the current growth, both Macro and Micro ... in all sectors ... Industrial, Technical, Scientific ... etc, etc ..... is explosive and I assure you ... never before seen. It is magnified exponentially by the size of Qatar ... it is a small sliver type thumb of property that quite frankly probably even has the local Qatari's baffled as to the economic juggernaut they are riding. Thus the aviation sector is beyond surging ... it is near comet like in its growth .... in all aspects. So as you can imagine ... the sustainable infrastructure ..... essentially us and many others ... always seem to be playing catch-up. The ATC staff that meets that demand, work extremely hard when on shift ... often in complex and demanding situations ... and do so with determination and pride. I have never seen a group of controllers and assistants, both male and female ... be so accommodating to the many "ASKs" of aviation ... but also be so successful at their implementation. They deserve true recognition for that ... which they do currently get in a competitive package in GCC terms ... but it still needs review and finessing to honour these men and women for the commitment they have, are and will show to this rapid growing aviation industry. My bias is probably hugely on display here ... however, from my 12 years experience here, I believe I can safely say ... that although we may not in pure numbers move bigger traffic figures than Dubai (many technical reason apply) ... but per controller I am convinced we work substantially harder!! I do however, believe that one day ... this will be THE place to work in the ME.
Last edited by CuitoCuanavale; 1st Oct 2014 at 13:16.