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Question: Where can I find some ICAO rule or regulation which states that pilot must comply with atc clearance immediately (or as soon as possible)? I work as an ATC in ME region and some pilots here are driving me crazy every day!! I've been searching through annexes and 4444 but without any success so far...
ATC: ABCDE report ready for descent ABCDE: Ready for descent ATC: ABCDE , descend to FL xxx ABCDE: Do you want us to descend now?
or similar reply would be:
ABCDE : When ready descend to FL xxx
Who the f#@k said " When ready"? I can't remember I did?
126.96.36.199 The pilot-in-command must commence a change of level as soon as possible, but not later than one (1) minute after receiving that instruction from ATC, unless that instruction specifies a later time or place.
camisa10. Desend means do it now. If I mean when ready then I'll say that. More often than not,when the pilot is expecting a descent restriction in my sector, but I give an earlier descent, the "now or when ready" question gets asked, like I'm descending the aircraft for fun,and not because there is traffic in the way. Some controllers do not help the cause however. After giving a descent instruction and getting asked the now or when ready question, they reply "when ready"! It annoys me.
Rolaaand. Mate, thanks but I don't need clarification. I surely understand the difference, but obviously many pilots in the ME region don't? I'm just trying to find something in the ICAO documents on this topic...something of that kind in FAA, UK CAA or Eurocontrol's documents is useful as the reference but not mandatory in this region ...
Capt. Claret. Clearances such as " when ready..." are appropriate and acceptable ONLY in hours with low density traffic...when the shit hits the fan- trust me, I'm not arguing with the pilots - descend means now I'm just curious, if you know the difference between descend and descend when ready, why are you asking " now or when ready"? Instruction was clear and understandable? While I was working in Europe, I never encountered misunderstanding of that kind, it started when I moved to the sandpit...
G'day camisa10, my extensive experience is limited solely to Australia and is usually that if the "when ready" is omitted, it's omitted in error. I imagine if clearances weren't routinely and mostly "when ready", one wouldn't question them.
I work in the ME too, and you just have to go with what works.
I believe this has come about because EVERY routine descent has a crossing restriction ie. "Desecend to FLxxx, cross xxxxx level". When transmitted as such, and the pilot knows he can wait and still make it/wants to remain level for as long as possible, they will always say "You want me to descend now?". I do TRY and say "When ready" whenever it's warranted, but I have started saying "Descend now" (as have many of my colleagues) whenever I need them to descend now. It's just saves the next unnecessary transmissions.
Well, I´ve been looking through several ICAO-documents and annexes. The only thing that was comming close was this quote from Doc 4444; Chapter 4; 4.5 AIR TRAFFIC COTROL CLEARANCES; 4.5.1 Scope and purpose; 188.8.131.52 ATC clearances must be issued early enough to ensure that they are transmitted to the aircraft in sufficient time for it to comply with them.
Again, using the word immediately in descent clearance implicates some unnecessary urgency ?
In my mind 'descend' is sufficient, 'descend now' has become a necessary evil to reduce subsequent RT but should mean the same thing in terms of urgency ie do it when you can without unnecessary delay, 'descend immediately' means do it right now, there is a separation issue imminent and it is urgent.
My pet peeve as a controller was a pilot stating 'ready for descent or request lower' (or variations there of) and me issuing a descent clearance and then getting the reply 'confirm that's when ready?'
I always tried to use when ready descent clearances where possible, but often had to issue 'descend (now)' clearances to keep thing moving effectively, there was of course a few examples where the level change was accepted early and effectively straight away, but descent at 100ft per minute etc catching their profile, which of course did nothing for saving RT...