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Old 2nd Mar 2009, 17:19   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Minimum Radar Separation Question

I have a quick question which I hope some kind soul can help me with. What is the minimum radar separation between aircraft in the airways and in the TMA in the UK please? I am sure there are many stipulations about this but a rough idea would be greatly appreciated. I tried to look it up whilst in the cruise today but quickly lost the will to live.

Best Regards,
Office Pest.
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Old 2nd Mar 2009, 17:28   #2 (permalink)
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5 nautical miles
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Old 2nd Mar 2009, 17:38   #3 (permalink)
 
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3 nm in the LTMA, for aircraft working TC sectors
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Old 2nd Mar 2009, 18:42   #4 (permalink)

 
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And just to muddy the waters further, LHR approach can use 2.5nm, 2nm and also less than 2nm under varying criteria.
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Old 2nd Mar 2009, 18:48   #5 (permalink)
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I was trying to do the 'rough idea'.

But now, for my edification, do we still use 8NM or 10NM anywhere in the en-route environment in the UK?
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Old 2nd Mar 2009, 18:55   #6 (permalink)
 
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10nm still used in SW Approaches and off Hebrides where service is SSR only
NS
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Old 2nd Mar 2009, 19:03   #7 (permalink)
 
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Many thanks for all your replies. Yes I thought it was roughly 5nm en-route and 3nm in the terminal area. I fully appreciate it wholly depends on where you are etc....

Best Regards,
O.P.
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Old 2nd Mar 2009, 19:05   #8 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
And just to muddy the waters further, LHR approach can use 2.5nm, 2nm and also less than 2nm under varying criteria.
never heard of 2 and less nm separation,what are criterion for those?
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Old 2nd Mar 2009, 19:23   #9 (permalink)

 
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never heard of 2 and less nm separation,what are criterion for those?
I'm not going into the criteria because they're in the TC MATS Pt 2 and it's not my place to publish stuff from that here, but suffice to say it involves final approach and parallel runways.

if you want but the procedures are there in black and white and used as well.
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Old 2nd Mar 2009, 19:49   #10 (permalink)
 
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And a SATCO to boot
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Old 2nd Mar 2009, 20:52   #11 (permalink)
 
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Aim for 10, get 2, call it 5. Oh blast, forgot about the SMF.
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Old 2nd Mar 2009, 21:13   #12 (permalink)
 
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min sep

1/6 of a mile...otherwise known as 1000 feet
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Old 3rd Mar 2009, 08:05   #13 (permalink)
 
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<<I'm not going into the criteria because they're in the TC MATS Pt 2 and it's not my place to publish stuff from that here, but suffice to say it involves final approach and parallel runways.>>

Roffa.... Yes, but 2nm is not a radar separation surely? Are you talking about visual separation between aircraft on parallel runways? In which case there is no defined separation.

I shall be seeing one of the Heathrow Directors this morning and will be finding out more!! 2.5nm separation on final approach was the minimum when I was there, but that's long ago!
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Old 3rd Mar 2009, 08:24   #14 (permalink)
 
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"1/2 a mile behind is better than 3 in front" ... heard from a very old and bold ATCO!
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Old 3rd Mar 2009, 09:46   #15 (permalink)

 
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Roffa.... Yes, but 2nm is not a radar separation surely? Are you talking about visual separation between aircraft on parallel runways? In which case there is no defined separation.
No, I am talking about radar separation HD. It's a procedure that was brought in some time after you left. I can use 2nm separation in IMC conditions under certain specific criteria.

Times they are a-changin'...
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Old 3rd Mar 2009, 12:19   #16 (permalink)
 
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Roffa.. Yep, fully understood now. Had it explained to me this morning in words of one syllable!! Just means I take my hat off more often in admiration for what you people do nowadays. I'd never have validated under current conditions.
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Old 3rd Mar 2009, 12:43   #17 (permalink)
 
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I'd never have validated under current conditions.

Bollox.
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Old 3rd Mar 2009, 18:04   #18 (permalink)
 
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Seperation

3 miles within 40 miles of the radar head, and dependant on the controllers experience.
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Old 3rd Mar 2009, 19:11   #19 (permalink)
 
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Stenner.. Presumably military? I know of no civil procedures in which separation is based on controller experience.

People... please forgive an ancient controller for joining in but I'm still fascinated by ATC and learn a great deal from these forums. Might come in useful when I'm re-incarnated!!
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Old 3rd Mar 2009, 19:54   #20 (permalink)
 
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HD

Stenners comment is certainly not derived from UK Military, don't know where he/she is getting it from.

Nothing in the military rules about 'controller experience'. IIRC it states 'where approved, within 40 miles of the radar overhead at or below FL245 between participating aircraft'
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