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Old 5th Dec 2011, 09:54   #1061 (permalink)


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Forgive me for sounding like i am arguing but 7 aircraft is not that much. Apparently the sim training starts with around 16 aircraft over a 30-35 minunte exercise. I know all the people on that course could have coped with 7 aircraft during the selection phase.
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Old 5th Dec 2011, 12:11   #1062 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Hi I am new here,

You guys have probably heard this question sooooo many times, but I cant find the answer anywhere.

So here goes, I applied with Eurocontrol about 2 weeks ago, and they sent me my username and password and all that, and I filled in the application form and I also sent them my education certificates, and now the answer that I can't find anywhere on this forum, is basically: What happens next? Do they tell us if we are unsuccessful? How long does it take for them to reply after we have sent them the certificates?
And also on the application form there was a question that asked for the refractive index of my eyes and i put unknown will this affect the application.
If anyone could answer these question it would really help. Thanks
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Old 5th Dec 2011, 13:23   #1063 (permalink)
MK4


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I am from Bulgaria too, and I passed Feast 1. Tomorrow I will try FEAST 2, let's hope the DART test is not very difficult.
I haven't used any software or help to prepare for the tests.
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Old 5th Dec 2011, 13:38   #1064 (permalink)
 
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What is the maximum (average, of cource) number of potential conflicts one can make during the exercises and still pass the DART test? 0/1/5?
From what you are saying I infer that only those who make no conflicts at all are suitable for ATCOs
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Old 5th Dec 2011, 14:26   #1065 (permalink)


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I hope this isn't true. First of all this is just a.. beginning test, before the real training has started so in my opinion it's not realistic to expect the maximum. Besides I think in some cases conflicts just can NOT be prevented. E.g. one of my aircraft was surrounded by 4 other aircraft, flying at flight level 100 (2 airplanes), 200 and 300.. So even by changing the level I couldn't escape the conflict....
It didn't seem soooo hard, however I can't say I'm totally satisfied...
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Old 5th Dec 2011, 20:39   #1066 (permalink)
 
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no,i know many who failed it and who failed the simtraining.

the problem is,that the airspace very small.
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Old 6th Dec 2011, 08:08   #1067 (permalink)


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I've send my application form at the 19th of October and I have been waiting for the answer every single day.

Yesterday I got the answer:
With reference to your application for the above-mentioned training, I unfortunately have to inform you, that we cannot proceed with your application.

This is due to the fact that according to our present manpower planning we do not have a requirement for additional air traffic controllers until 2017. We will therefore only need to train students as from the beginning of 2014.

We have now set the age limit at "not yet 25 years of age on 01.10.2014." Unfortunately you are above our age limit.

Please accept our apologies for this inconvenience.


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Old 9th Dec 2011, 12:56   #1068 (permalink)
 
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Hey! Could you help me, I have some questions about the ball on the wall test. - at feasttest.com. Do you know which is the average % and which is the easiest way to pass it in real, because i see, sometimes not clicking or concentrate only 1-2 window is better then wrong clicks etc. Have you any comments of this?How looks like at real test? Thanks
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Old 11th Dec 2011, 13:42   #1069 (permalink)


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FEAST DART

Hello everybody!

I've been following this topic for some time now and recently there's been an increased interest in the rules and looks of the new FEAST DART. As most of you already know DART stands for Dynamic ATC Radar Test and it was implemented several months ago as a replacement to the Flight Strip Test in Eurocontrol's selection process.

...so where to start. I took the test some time ago and I will try to explain some of it here. The FEAST DART test is basically a simplified simulation of the actual work of the ATCs. You're given a radar screen which consists of several circles with different radiuses, representing the airspace you control. There are some small green squares with trails (four of them) which represent the aircrafts you're controlling. There are four orange triangles which are the checkpoints you have to take your planes through, and some buttons in the right side of the screen (we'll discuss them later). The exercises in the test are six, the first three of which are only there to train you on the rules of the test, and the second three (4th, 5th and 6th) are the ones you are being evaluated on.


This is not a screenshot from the real test, but the real one is almost identical.

TRAINING
Ex1, Ex2, Ex3: as mentioned above, these three are training exercises. You're introduced to the rules and some characteristics of the test, which very briefly sounded like this:
-You'll be given four aircrafts, colored green, which are under your control;
-Apart from "your" aircrafts there will be some traffic that you can't control, as these planes will be colored grey. They will pass through the radar screen without changing their altitudes and headings;
-All aircrafts (controlled and uncontrolled ones) are moving with the same speed, so you can change only the heading and the flight level of the ones under your control;
-The information for the aircrafts' headings and altitudes are given with small numbers next to the green squares that represent each particular aircraft.
-The aim is to get all of your aircrafts through the checkpoints in the correct order, avoiding conflicts. Checkpoints are named CP1, CP2, CP3, CP4 and this is the order you should follow with any of your aircrafts;
-The six small vertically arranged circles on the left of the screen represent the exercise you're currently on;
-The buttons on the right side of the screen are named "LEFT", "RIGHT", "ALT" and "SUM". The LEFT/RIGHT buttons are used to change the heading of a particular aircraft (Clicking RIGHT and entering 315 will make the aircraft turn right to heading 315);
-The ALT button on the screen is used to change the altitude of a particular aircraft. You're only allowed to use three altitude levels 100, 200 and 300;
-You have a conflict when both of these conditions are present: two aircrafts are flying at the same altitude and are less than 2.5NM apart;
That's pretty much all with the exception of the SUM button (we will talk about it in Ex6).

TEST
Ex4: the first one of the evaluated exercises. The aim is to guide your four aircrafts through four checkpoints in the correct order. There is no uncontrolled traffic. Your priorities will be in this order of importance:
1)Avoid conflicts;
2)Use less commands;
3)Pass checkpoints accurately.
Ex5: absolutely the same as Ex4 with the same priorities, but this time you have uncontrolled traffic, which makes it more difficult because you have
to avoid conflicts with more aircrafts.
Ex6: includes Ex5, but there is an extra task. You have to put your headphones on. While guiding aircrafts through the checkpoints you'll have to listen to a long sequence of letters and numbers and calculate the sum of the last two numbers you hear. If the sequence goes like this "M K 5 J 3 6 N P Q 8", you'll firstly have to sum 5+3, then 3+6, after that 6+8. The sum has to be entered, using the SUM button on the right side of the screen.

...and last, but not least, some pieces of advice from me:
-When doing Ex5 and Ex6 make sure you keep a fair amount of distance between your aircrafts, because it gets pretty nasty when you are controlling two aircrafts at different altitudes close to each other and you have to dodge two uncontrolled ones, heading your way, again flying at different altitudes. Remember, you can only fly at three altitude levels (100, 200 or 300)!
-When doing Ex4, Ex5 and Ex6 keep in mind the turning radius of your aircrafts (which is one and the same for all of them).
-Keep in mind your priorities!!! The most important one is to AVOID CONFLICTS and, God forbid, collisions. The second is to use less heading and altitude changes. The least important is to pass the checkpoints accurately (there is a certain distance within which you can pass the checkpoint).

I hope that my post would be useful! If you have any questions, I'll be more than happy to answer them! GOOD LUCK to all of you, who are attending the test!
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Old 12th Dec 2011, 07:51   #1070 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
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i really don't think it is a good idea to post this here.

the test is easy and the aim of the test is to test you if you have the skills(without knowing anything about the test). the test is useless if you pass it because of special information. and you don't know if you have the skills to act patient and coordinated under pressure without knowing what is going to happen.
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Old 12th Dec 2011, 08:07   #1071 (permalink)
BeT
 
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^^^Agreed^^^

Although there are many helpful aspects to this thread, posting the exact methodology of the test does nobody any favours IMO.

This thread is doing a pretty good job of coaching people through the tests, even if they havent got the real skills - leading to students failing on the course, which is a MASSIVE pain (and costly) for everyone.

The tests are not 'hard', they simply try to seek out certain thought patterns and skills in individuals.

I first posted in this thread about 4yrs ago with some advice, and it remains the same.

Rest well, dress smart and know some background info on the company.

The rest you cannot prepare for, so stop trying! Theres a greater chance you are setting yourself up for a fall.

BeT
(Eurocontrol ATCO).
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Old 14th Dec 2011, 12:13   #1072 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
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...

Just receive...
With reference to your application for the above-mentioned training, I unfortunately have to inform you, that we cannot invite you for our phase 1 selection test in the near future.

This is due to the fact that according to our present manpower planning we do not have a requirement for additional air traffic controllers until 2017. We will therefore only need to train students as from the beginning of 2014.

This means we will only start with our selection tests again in 2013. We will keep your application form and will be in contact with you again at the end of 2012 to find out if you are still interested to participate in our selection tests in 2013.

Please accept our apologies for this inconvenience.
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Old 14th Dec 2011, 17:26   #1073 (permalink)
 
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^^^ So I take it that anyone who has applied in the last month (i.e. me) will get the same reply... right???
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 07:37   #1074 (permalink)
 
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I applied in September.
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 14:45   #1075 (permalink)
 
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^^^ Ok then, let me rephrase, does that mean anyone who applied at roughly the same time as you will get the same reply?? Or do they consider everyone before they turn them down, did you apply for trainee position or are you an experienced controller?
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 14:54   #1076 (permalink)
BeT
 
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MUAC is 'overstaffed' by about 35 controllers I believe - although some sectors are still 'short' due non equal distribution of staff.

Recruitment will continue in order to keep the wheels greased, as it where; but significant numbers of new controllers will not be needed at least for a while.

The 2012 courses are full and have been for some time, the last time I checked 2013 courses were also almost full (although the numbers to be recruited were up on 2012). Dont forget if you are just applying now any good candidates that have already been through the process will be filling the last few spots.

Its simply not a good time to be applying unfortunately. However, as usual I predict come 2017 there will be a massive shortfall!
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 15:56   #1077 (permalink)
 
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hey, I thought the 2013 course have been cancelled?

it would be good to know because I have already tried it in 2010 and failed the inverview because of english.
and my plan was to apply again at the end of next year and I thought all tests are cancelled and the selection procedure is going to start again in january 2013 for the 2014 courses?
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 16:27   #1078 (permalink)
BeT
 
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That could easily be the case.

Its been about 6 weeks since I had any kind of contact with people in the HR dept. over such things.
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Old 20th Dec 2011, 14:14   #1079 (permalink)

More than just an ATCO
 
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Quote:
as usual I predict come 2017 there will be a massive shortfall!
Possibly all applications being handled by the DFS then
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Old 20th Dec 2011, 16:25   #1080 (permalink)
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where is this DFS stuff coming from Lon More?

DO you mean DFS will handle the training (not outside the realms of possibility) or are you implying some take over of MUAC by DFS?

If its the second you are implying, id love to know your sources as the tide of info we have at the moment is pointing in the exact opposite direction.......
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