NATS Pensions (Split from Pay 2009 thread)

[mr.777]

To coin a well known phrase...Mr Barron, you can have my pension when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

Anymore news...nothing heard this morning at work.

[Stupendous Man]

Going on strike would be a last resort - we would get absolutely no sympathy whatsoever from the public.

I don't need the publics sympathy on this one.
This is my money - that I've paid in already.

And we're nearing the last resort - management have said that their terms are non-negotiable - and they want us to take a future reduction in pensionable earnings.

Not doing the odd AAVA isn't going to work. No AAVAs will cause delays for sure - but not enough to bother the Barron and his cronies. Only the threat of BA and the rest of the airlines (our shareholders remember) losing a whole days flying (plus the knock on effect of aircraft and crews being out of positon) will do. And that means we all walk out the door - together.

With less than 4 years to go for me, I'm naturally worried about the future of my pension

I would say that you are in a relatively safe position. You will be receiving your pension when the rest of us with 20+ years to go are working with a 2 tier divided workforce. With different T&Cs/pension will come divide and conquer. The new pension scheme will get offered decent pay rises. Those of us on the original will get RPI (if we're lucky).

[AyrTC]

When on strike in 1981 some people did go into work.At the time I was an angry young man and wondered why they did this.We are not a dictatorship some of the reasons were

1 not a union member
2 did not agree with the strike

I had deep respect for these people who were not intimadated, went into work and then gave their earnings to charity good on them.

There were also some other complex issues which I am not going into however the person invoved was correct in going into work.

Today the people that will really annoy me will be the people who go into work because they need a deposit for a 42" plasma T.V and why should they need to worry about pensions its an old mans worry ( come and see me again when you are trying to buy your 110" bionic TV when your 65

As I have said on other threads "rolling" strike action is no good.All units must come out on strike at the same time/day and all the strike breakers can try and work with each other and the Mil

In 1981 some people tried to help the company had an incident when the rest of the unit was on strike and they were still shafted by the company,of course modern managers are much more sympathetic now than they were in 1981!
Rgds
AyrTC

ps also a lot of the union reps who helped organise the strike eventually became senior managers in NATS

[VectorLine]

standing outside with oil drums and donkey jackets

ha ha ha ha

At Swanwick it will be more like Patio Heaters and Diesel Jackets!

I can just see the BBC coverage showing Swanwick ATCOs (and some ATSAs) pitching up to join the picket line in Porches, Range Rovers, TVRs, Jags and the odd 350Z - public support, zero.

[LateStay]

Don't forget the outside caterers .

[ZOOKER]

Vector Line, not sure I agree with you.
At a certain workplace oop north, some members of the public actually turn up just to photograph the employee's cars!
Said employees do not have the safety accountabilities you folks have. Their employment involves the repetitive and monotonous propulsion of a small air-filled leather bag from one side of a grass surface to the other. For this worthwhile activity they allegedly receive an ATCO's annual salary every week!

[mr.777]

No outside catering if its provided by Aramark thank you very much

[MrJones]

I have to disagree about 0% sympathy from the public.

Many many people have had their pensions disappear from in front of their noses when they thought or were promised they were safe.

Let's not forget we contribute to our pensions and NATS hasn't been paying their full whack for many years.

I think the public are fed up with being ripped off and I think we'll get quite a bit of support.

[ImnotanERIC]

a good chunk of the population are very selfishly minded. as soon as a holiday gets messed around with Im sure they would moan.a lot.
Which in some ways is fair enough as they may have saved up for quite a while to go on holiday and could have been looking forward to it for months. Strike action is a last resort when negotiations break down. It would not be that we want to mess up peoples hols.
We are not like the french. They support their workers in times of industrial action. but they also smell of cheese and wine

[DAL208]

We will not get ANY support from the public...in fact we will get -% support, we will get lynched!
But...who cares? The reason why public support has been important in previous big strikes such as Firemen or Civil Service is because they were up against a stubborn govt...who rely on public support. Did teh Shell Tankers care bout public opinion? nah...neither do i.

[kinglouis]

just for the record for all you old boys here moaning about us young ones who apparantly dont care about pensions.... we do and we will strike. ive been here 5 years or so and my pension that is a long way off is one of the most important things in the long term to me and us. the day i started paying into my pension was the day i gave a shit. the company can take us on if they want, i will strike and i could do with the extra time on my xbox on my 42" plasma tv... the only decision is which room i play it in

if we ever stand together as a union/company and units we need to do it now or we are seriously f****d.

KL

[ZOOKER]

VectorLine,
Reading your post again;-
I'm not sure why anyone at Swanwick would need a Range Rover either.
Is there a speed-hump on the access road?

[anotherthing]

Actually Zooker,

there are several speed humps throughout the site at Swanwick that can't be avoided even just driving to and from the car park...

Add to that the building site that is "Swanwick Towers" on the access road and you will find that a Range Rover (Vogue or TDI Sport at the very least) is needed. In act one has virtually hardly driven the other car (the sporty number) to work since moving from West Drayton

[ZOOKER]

Shouldn't you be acting responsibly?
Ever used the 'Hill Descent Control'?
Of course you haven't.
There aren't any!

[anotherthing]

I am - if one was to drive the sports car, one would damage the front skirt as it crossed the speed humps. The resultant pollution caused by fixing and respraying far outweighs the diesel my Chelsea Tractor uses... after all, I only live 2 miles form work so my Range Rover does not cause too much pollution

[ZOOKER]

Deafening silence while 'anotherthing' looks up 'Hill Descent Control' on Google.
- Obviously KIA's are not equipped with this feature.

[Yahoo!®]

Zooker you are a tool. Why don't you just GTF

[Buster the Bear]

Trust what 250kts is saying.

10 years ago, the T&G members at Luton airport (security, admin, terminal staff) accepted new Terms & Conditions for new starters whilst retaining their own conditions. A hatchet man was employed to attack all T's & C's, he and his henchmen did their 'dirty work' then bu@@ered off to do it again for another business elsewhere in the UK.

9 years later, only a handful of 'Old Terms & Conditions' staff remain on the payroll. Staff turn over in manual grades is higher than in ATC, but for those ATCOs with 10 years or less service currently, by the time they reach their late 40's, they will be a minority work force and as such powerless against what the 'majority' want or are forced to have!

Please, please please trust what 250kts is saying.

Personally, I get delayed regularly by the European ATCOs going on strike. Good on em' if they can retain what they have.

If it takes strike action, I will back you guys all the way!

I am an ex union branch chair of a 'sister trade union'.

[VectorLine]

they will be a minority work force and as such powerless against what the 'majority' want or are forced to have!

I don't understand this - can you give an example please?

I'm not taking the piss, I just don't get it.

VL

PS, Zooker;

I'm not sure why anyone at Swanwick would need a Range Rover

Because you can take out more of the ducks with a bigger car and you don't feel the horrible squashing...

[ZOOKER]

Yahoo!
We are all 'tools', and like 'tools' we are being used to do a job.
Enjoy your pay rise and your pension.