ATC IssuesA place where pilots may enter the 'lions den' that is Air Traffic Control in complete safety and find out the answers to all those obscure topics which you always wanted to know the answer to but were afraid to ask.
if they don't get something decent done this deal they can stick their £15 a month up their ****.
"They" are you. It's your union.
Once you've stuck their £15 up their arse what are you going to do, go to PB and try and negotiate your own rise? That's why management must piss themselves laughing much of the time, nothing to do with the union reps (who I have rather a lot of respect for for taking on the somewhat thankless task of being an atco rep) but rather the fact they read quality stuff like this on PPRuNe.
Prospect and it's predecessors have on the whole done a pretty good job in the 25 plus years I've been a member and occasional rep. No strikes in my time and yet my salary has over that period outstripped inflation, top earning ATCO 2s are now hitting six figures plus and my working conditions aren't exactly onerous. Yup, they can stuff that record up their arse
Lets go and demand a totally unrealistic pay rise at a time our customers, the ones who pay us for our services, are contracting and cutting costs quite severely. That's logical.
I'm all for picking a fight over the pension but in the current economic climate to go looking for large single or double digit pay rises is ludicrous unless you can find some way of paying for them via efficiences. Any (sensible) ideas? You won't get anything for nothing.
Otherwise, imo, you're wasting your time. The industry can barely afford to function at the moment and we are not immune from these issues. PB's own package is irrelevant in this discussion, if that's what he negotiated when he joined then so be it. It's not an indication of what I or we should expect to match.
yahoo@ #55 Nice post. You ever tried being a union rep? Roffa talks a lot of sense, particularly in the current economic climate. NATS is already tightening its belt (look in the NATS thread) and expect to see plenty more over the coming months. May not be a repeat of 9/11 when NATS had to borrow more to pay its bills but a big downturn is fairly obviously coming.
As was eloquently put by Roffa, the union has negotiated us some very good pay rises over the years. Admitiddley we went from being grossly underpaid to being well renumerated (although I would always like more), but it still took their negotiating skills to get these rises.
They have not been perfect - they would be the first to admit that, but overall they do a very good job for us. If you think you can do better, step up to the plate... any halfwit can sit on the sidelines and snipe.
Our customers are having a hard time at the moment... whatever way you look at it that will affect us... our customers are the ones who pay our wages and our pension (as in any commercial service industry). Unfortunately it comes at a time when both pay and pensions are up for discussion.
The non halfwits amongst us would rather have a smaller pay rise but secure the pension. To think you will get a secure pension and a huge pay rise this time round illustrates complete ignorance.
As employees we did not want NATS to be sold off... however it was and we have to face up to the fact that we are now being run as a business, not a Civil Service.
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Why not in the NATS Forum ?
The topic being discussed is of relevance to many ATC staff, regardless of their employer, since everyone has pension and salary negotiations I expect.
NATS staff are not alone in having to fight their management on these issues, and keeping the topic in the public eye allows others to see what is going on in NATS, compare it with their own situation, and provide independent comment which might be of use to us all in the ATC industry.
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To think you will get a secure pension and a huge pay rise this time round illustrates complete ignorance.
what would be huge?
I want the same as Barron. That's fair isn't it? Or if not the same would two thirds of his be more reasonable? You're playing perfectly into management hands. A promoption may be coming your way very soon. I'd love to be a union rep, my personal union rep is a passionate person who's views are the same as mine and his deputy the same. We're doing all we can from our corner we need more people to be doing the same elsewhere.
that last post is horrible.
And it sounds like the sort of thing a big company would do.
that had never occured to me.
Eventually they would get exactly what they want, albeit over a longer period than would be ideal for them.
If that went through into practice it would be awful for us.
As long as NATS dangles the carrot of AAVA's there will always be someone willing to sell their souls for a few extra quid, I guess they would sell their grannies too if the price was right.....after spending more than 30 years with this company and previous CAA it never ceases to amaze me how the majority of ATCO's appear so short sighted and willing to take a few extra bob in exchange for selling their fututre fortunes......I wonder how many will sell their leave in the next round of deals!!!!! So You had your chance guys and blew it for greed!!!!!
the union hasnt the balls anymore, im sorry but i just dont trust them. they are far too sympathetic to the wool the company are pulling over all our eyes.
we are playing into the companies hands already unless we get on with it and scare the complete s**t out of them.
i for one am happy to start not doing AAVA's... if the union could put that out to all and one its a start, then start dropping extra validations, then if it got that far, strike.
as always, the majority of us would band together and the minority who earn £70k feel desperate enough to sell us all out and get that extra £330 after tax for an AAVA because they need the extra money or the kids wont eat.
we should walk out the door. We could pre-ballot it
quite right. The company make money they should pay us more. THey can save money elsewhere. Making Lawrence Hoskins and his cronies fly regular economy class instead of the massively expensive flexible business they always travel on would save a bunch of cash. Ivf they need to stay in a hotel put them in the holiday inn express too.
Plus all these meetings that they rent out hugely expensive hotel conferencing facilities is a waste of time. THere is conferencing rooms available at CTC for free. Plus stop sending me personal copies of pulse and safety matters magazines! i have email!
At our lower band unit,the union membership has fallen to a level,that any strike action would probably have little effect.This is because ''working together'' has had far more consequences than bigger units.The big units are just getting a taste of what has happened here since 1991.
Most people say what do I get for my union membership? Hmmm nothing.
Management say we now work for NSL.Are we going to be guinea pigs yet again for a new scheme.Probably and the sad thing here is that there is little fight left.People just look after themselves and are leaving for the sandpit.Good luck to them because it's no pleasure in lower band NSL land anymore.Prospect certainly won't help either.
when im next in im going to find a union rep and probe about strike action etc.... id always hoped i wouldnt have to, but the union are so naff at communication and getting into bed with management i guess its up to us to ask.
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Quote:
and the minority who earn £70k feel desperate
Not half as desperate as those on less in the lower bands whose pay scale doesn't reach £70k and don't see AAVAs cos 'the contract can't afford them'. Oh, and we don't even get paid the extra for the met contingency cos the union stitched us up on that agreement.
If 'shewhomakesmyearsbleed' agreed to it, emigration would be on the cards never mind fighting to save my pension.
And I guess it's the same everywhere. We could have - and will have - the same debate here in Germany, since our negotiations about the pension is already running, about pay rise is due end of september.
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