ATC IssuesA place where pilots may enter the 'lions den' that is Air Traffic Control in complete safety and find out the answers to all those obscure topics which you always wanted to know the answer to but were afraid to ask.
Is your employer/country actively seeking rated controllers?
Everyone says there is a worldwide shortage of controllers. Anyone wishing to share info on who is actively looking for new controllers, or rated controllers?
In my experience a shortage does exist. There are plenty of licensed controllers out there - but finding someone with good experience, and who wants to move, is the tricky thing when you're trying to recruit.
I know that my opinion represents minority,but no one (either PPRuNe member or ANSP) has proved so far differently. Just statements that company needs qualified people but action,NO. DFS announced the third time at flightglobal,,vacancy, with famous group of words, ASAP. No one yet(3+months from first vacancy) has been tested. I may bet ,if ever happen, that first expat qualified ATCO with DFS license endorsement will occur at April of 2009. 15 months is not ASAP.
P.S. I must say,also, that DFS is doing great job. In terms of operational ATC services.
DFS - Yes. Advertised on Fight International. ASA - Yes. Advertised through website and e-mails sent out. Nav Canada - Yes. By personal reference. Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Oman etc. - Yes. Always accepting applications. Airways - Yes. Not sure where it has been advertised recently, but looking for experienced controllers. Swiss Control - Yes. NATS - Yes The list goes on. Shortage - definitely yes; what are the ATC service providers willing to pay to attract??
Eurocontrol - Maastricht advertised on the website in December 2007. Interviews occurred in January & February 2008.
The 1st Course started on March 17, 2008. We expect this course to be OJT after the required lead-in period (ie. Simulator) in August 2008. We could expect on rough calculations that these people will be fully checked out with all endorsements by Summer 2009.
The 2nd Course starts 21 July*, 2008 & 3rd Course on 10 November*, 2008. (* amended since last post)
With traffic levels, resources & ESARR 5 requirements as the biggest burden on training it is extremely unrealistic to expect that someone (even with previous experience) to be fully checked out in less than 12 months from the time they start.
These people are trained on top of the Ab Initio (student) intakes & with resources at a maximum, it is impossible to make any more efficiencies.The Conversion Controllers have already had their course streamlined.
Nobody in the world will checkout on a sector group that handles more than 600,000 movements per year ,in less than 9 months from the time they start. The earliest would be 12 months.
I think you will find the DFS is in the same boat.
Last edited by The Euronator : 3rd April 2008 at 23:43.
UAE is running just on 550,000 moves per year with basically 4 sectors and no flow control (increasing at 12ish %)
You get 200 hours to check out...they may extend you for a cycle or two, but not usually more than that! Takes on average 2.5 months. And that is after the whole 6 days theory and if you are lucky 2 runs in the sim before starting live OJTI.
@ Euronarator, It is not comparable. MUAC or any other place in the world. When MUAC has problem,they solve it,because of the nature of primary idea. No one established any other unit with idea to be international. Some of units accept it during the period of time but MUAC is still leader. I rather believe that they will close some airports than to give real opportunity for expats. ME is excluded from this.
In Bahrain - similar traffic volume with only 2 (1 man) sectors with a system that does VERY little for u loaded with airlines that have been blacklisted in europe with NO flow control - 3 months target training - max extension to 4 months - most validate within 2 month though!
Nobody in the world will checkout on a sector group that handles more than 600,000 movements per year ,in less than 9 months from the time they start. The earliest would be 12 months.
Sorry about that, I should have explained it a bit clearer. I was meaning within the Eurocontrol context. With the regulations that are now being placed on us by our regulator it is taking longer to jump those hurdles. It is getting a lot more like Aus, where you have to handle all the bullshit being thrown at you before you can get them up & running. I dont care where you come from you wont be checked out in Maastricht in a short time frame because of this. I am not sure whether the ME has this, as it sounds like a bit of the Wild West over there.
@ Euronarator, I know that you have to follow very strict rules regarding trainning,especially after ESSAR 5 ,but could you explain me the difference between your students and experienced ATCO. Both of them has to pass an OJT lasting about 12 months. So someone compares 8 months school for ab initio with 10 years operational experience. The point of direct entries lies exactly here. If you need people immediatelly then you will look for experienced people in order to reduce transition/validation period. I think that ME is good example how it works in real life. Very short validation period, but entry requirements are usually high ones. So shortage in Europe does not exist. As long as ANSP concers expat ATCOs as students. Story of shortage is more connected with union and associations matters. We are all asking for better T&Cs.
So shortage in Europe does not exist. As long as ANSP concers expat ATCOs as students. Story of shortage is more connected with union and associations matters
Lets get one thing straight. The ANSP wants a bum on a seat as quickly as possible. They would want that experienced controller working on the sector the day after they employ them. The REGULATOR is the one that imposes training times & competency lengths on the ANSP. This has nothing to do with union & association matters.
The REGULATOR allows us to employ experienced ATC's without having to put them through the BASIC course because they have a proven Recognition of Prior Learning (RPL). This means we can train these experienced ATC's at the centre directly. Within this program we have made other efficiencies for experienced ATC's but at the end of the day what the REGULATOR MANDATES we cannot avoid. There is a shortage but it takes a long time to alleviate this shortage because we CANNOT amend the course due to the REGULATIONS imposed on us.
I think you will find in LVNL,NATS,DFS,BELGOCONTROL etc this will be the same problem.
Last edited by The Euronator : 6th April 2008 at 09:23.
Norway's provider is Avinor, and all though they are not actively in the foreign market, they are hiring. At the moment there are a staff shortage of about 100 in Norway (understaffed by 20-25%). Recent employment of people from Denmark, Sweden, Iceland and Croatia is what I know about personally.
Sweden's LFV has recently been accepting new staff from Norway to Malmo ACC, possible more.
What I heard from Denmark (Naviair) is that they have too few positions to train on for student controllers, so a few of them actually now finish their education in Norway with an agreement with Avinor. If that also applies to experienced controllers, I don't know. Best way to find out is to send an email
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