"Make Your Present Heading A Radar Heading"
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: No idea.
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Make Your Present Heading A Radar Heading"
Hi All,
Just a curious pilot wondering what is the significance of the above? Often over the UK we are told the above phrase when inbound to a point but then not given any headings that would differ from our original track.
Thanks in advance!
Just a curious pilot wondering what is the significance of the above? Often over the UK we are told the above phrase when inbound to a point but then not given any headings that would differ from our original track.
Thanks in advance!
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 1997
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's just very poor RT phraseology on the part of the controller.
The standard phrases to be used when vectoring are found in the UK Manual of Air Traffic Services Part 1.
They are:
The standard phrases to be used when vectoring are found in the UK Manual of Air Traffic Services Part 1.
They are:
Continue present heading.
Continue present heading and report that heading.
Continue heading (three digits).
Turn left/right heading (three digits).
Turn left/right (number) degrees and report heading.
Fly heading (three digits).
Stop turn heading (three digits).
Stop turn now.
Continue turn heading (three digits).
Leave (significant point) heading (three digits).
Resume own navigation for (significant point). Position is (distance) miles N/E/S/W of (reporting point).
Resume own navigation for (significant point) magnetic track (three digits) degrees, distance (number) miles.
Magnetic track to (significant point) is (three digits) degrees distance (number) miles.
Continue present heading and report that heading.
Continue heading (three digits).
Turn left/right heading (three digits).
Turn left/right (number) degrees and report heading.
Fly heading (three digits).
Stop turn heading (three digits).
Stop turn now.
Continue turn heading (three digits).
Leave (significant point) heading (three digits).
Resume own navigation for (significant point). Position is (distance) miles N/E/S/W of (reporting point).
Resume own navigation for (significant point) magnetic track (three digits) degrees, distance (number) miles.
Magnetic track to (significant point) is (three digits) degrees distance (number) miles.
FFD to answer your question it's old fashioned phraseology which is used to ensure that you lock on to your heading and don't deviate from it until released to resume your own navigation again. As mentioned above it doesn't comply with current R/T standards, however, it once did (maybe not in the UK though). Some old habits die hard. I remember when airways were changed from Green/Red/Amber/Blue to Golf/Romeo/Alpha/Bravo etc., how I like so many continued to use the old terms. Phraseology standards tend to change over the years and younger ATCOs and indeed pilots may not be aware of "historical" terms.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: No idea.
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi All,
Many thanks for your replies. Indeed Ive heard many variations on it, the majority are the standard phrases PPRuNe Radar has mentioned.
AVman thanks for the explanation, though Ive frequently been told , once inbound to a beacon or point, hundreds of miles away, to maintain the heading and then only later to be told "Own nav direct AAA".
Just curious, thanks again for all the replies!
Many thanks for your replies. Indeed Ive heard many variations on it, the majority are the standard phrases PPRuNe Radar has mentioned.
AVman thanks for the explanation, though Ive frequently been told , once inbound to a beacon or point, hundreds of miles away, to maintain the heading and then only later to be told "Own nav direct AAA".
Just curious, thanks again for all the replies!
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: nr SAM
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It usually comes down to separation. Although some airways are procedurally separated (albeit radar monitored) many aren't, so even though if you all maintained the flight plan route there would be no loss, we can't take that chance, so often have to assign hdgs - I usually don't need to know what they are, just that you stay on them.
Other examples include: being close to the edge of a sector and an adjacent sector has traffic close to their edge too - you will never hear the aircraft on frequency but we still need to ensure separation;
The next controller ask us to lock you on your heading to ensure you stream behind other traffic that could be a hundred miles away at that time, and coming from a completely different direction;
HTH
Other examples include: being close to the edge of a sector and an adjacent sector has traffic close to their edge too - you will never hear the aircraft on frequency but we still need to ensure separation;
The next controller ask us to lock you on your heading to ensure you stream behind other traffic that could be a hundred miles away at that time, and coming from a completely different direction;
HTH
FFD, yes, you can be locked on to a heading for several hundred miles. When ATC see that two aircraft at the same FL will cross with sufficient seperation, but that this seperation could be compromised should one or the other a/c make even a slight heading adjustment, those a/c will be locked onto a so-called radar heading. Once they have crossed they will be instructed to resume own nav either to the original fix they were navigating to, or direct to another fix further down the route. It is not wise to allow two aircraft to cross with adequate but relatively close horizontal seperation when they are both flying "own nav".
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Sometimes north, sometimes south
Posts: 1,809
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
1 Post
This is another old chestnut. And I still haven't heard what seems to me to be an adequate explanation. The difference is not between 'radar heading' and 'own nav'. It's between 'radar heading' and just plain 'heading'. If a controller tells you when you're under radar control in controlled airspace, 'turn left heading 240 degrees', you don't interpret that to mean "ah but he didn't say RADAR heading so he won't mind if I wander around a bit between 235 and 245".
And if the heading's been assigned for the guys in the next sector, surely the controller just says "continue on the heading and contact Next Guy on xxx.yy"?
NS
And if the heading's been assigned for the guys in the next sector, surely the controller just says "continue on the heading and contact Next Guy on xxx.yy"?
NS
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: nr SAM
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
his is another old chestnut. And I still haven't heard what seems to me to be an adequate explanation. The difference is not between 'radar heading' and 'own nav'. It's between 'radar heading' and just plain 'heading'.
And if the heading's been assigned for the guys in the next sector, surely the controller just says "continue on the heading and contact Next Guy on xxx.yy"?
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Close to Beer
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also (at least before I emmigrated) in certain parts of Europe there is a requirement of 10NM separation for aircrafts on own navigation, where as aircrafts that are being radar vectored only need 5NM separation.
Therefore by locking an aircraft on to 'present heading' you reduce the required separation minima, and you do not need to turn either of the aircrafts involved to maintain required separation.
Therefore by locking an aircraft on to 'present heading' you reduce the required separation minima, and you do not need to turn either of the aircrafts involved to maintain required separation.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: USA
Age: 67
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Worth mentioning is that converting the heading you are flying to maintain a procedural track to a radar vector may allow me to take you lower than I can if you stay on the procedure.
Example: on this procedure, the MEAs on the legs inbound to the localizer are 5000 and 7000 feet - yet my MVAs I can use on vectors are as low as 3,000.
I want to get aircraft down for a visual or for the ILS approach, so I'll say to aircraft checking in "fly present heading (taking them off the procedure and negating the requirement to honor the MEA), descend and maintain 3,000 (the MVA).
It's a bit of a paper chase, but one reason it's done.
Example: on this procedure, the MEAs on the legs inbound to the localizer are 5000 and 7000 feet - yet my MVAs I can use on vectors are as low as 3,000.
I want to get aircraft down for a visual or for the ILS approach, so I'll say to aircraft checking in "fly present heading (taking them off the procedure and negating the requirement to honor the MEA), descend and maintain 3,000 (the MVA).
It's a bit of a paper chase, but one reason it's done.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: No idea.
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many thanks for all of you taking the time to respond - things are a bit clearer now!
One more quick related question - if told to "Maintain Present Heading" there is no need to report what that heading actually is(unless instructed to do so), is that correct?
One more quick related question - if told to "Maintain Present Heading" there is no need to report what that heading actually is(unless instructed to do so), is that correct?
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't really agree with that last post. If the controller wants to know the heading, he will ask you to report it. If he wants you on a specific (i.e. parallel or reciprocal) heading, then he will simply tell you to FLY that heading.
There's nothing worse when you're busy than a pilot responding with "Continue present heading, err, umm, one ermmm six five degrees" when you never asked for the heading in the first place!
Hence why there's two different bits of phraseology.
There's nothing worse when you're busy than a pilot responding with "Continue present heading, err, umm, one ermmm six five degrees" when you never asked for the heading in the first place!
Hence why there's two different bits of phraseology.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: No idea.
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's nothing worse when you're busy than a pilot responding with "Continue present heading, err, umm, one ermmm six five degrees" when you never asked for the heading in the first place!
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Crapaud land
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I regularly use 'continue present heading' without knowing or caring what it is. I just don't want the a/c to deviate from its' current 'track' for any reason. If I think I am going to have to alter that heading a little then it is important to know what it is, but any significant change can be applied without any prior knowledge other than a good eye. You do the same when you take an a/c off 'own nav' and give it a heading
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Samsonite Avenue
Posts: 1,538
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Locking an A/C on a heading doesn't guarantee it's track will not change.
I am sure many of us nowadays if requested could fly a specific track just as accurately as we fly a heading and that would obviously negate any change in wind speed or direction over a distance if locked on a heading. However if we were to suddenly use tracks instead of headings, the ATC system would need to be overhauled!