ATC IssuesA place where pilots may enter the 'lions den' that is Air Traffic Control in complete safety and find out the answers to all those obscure topics which you always wanted to know the answer to but were afraid to ask.
I lived with a guy on my course, and we picked up another person from a later course a few months in
Did you find your flatmate on here or through another site? I am currently using flatmatefinders.com.au but, its pretty slim pickings unless you want $250+/week + bills etc
I'll second what Fatty said about the Taylor's Hill area. I'm in Keilor Downs, a neighbouring suburb. On a good day I can be at work in 15 minutes. $300 for a three bedroom house with ensuite, walk-in robe and walk-in pantry. Oh, and the new Coles at Taylor's Hill is huge.
I'm looking for shared accommodation, Starting on the November course if anyone know of any or interested PM me. Plus what area's are good and what area should be avoided?
Definitely stay away from the Broadmeadows area. Two of us had our cars broken into in the BoM carpark while we were on the aerodrome observer's course that tower trainees have to do. If anyone on the November course wants to come down early, our place at Keilor Downs will be available in a couple of weeks. I've just pulled out of the course and am heading back to Brisbane soon.
CanuckInOz: my housemate was advertising on here fortunately, he already had a place, was just looking for people to fill the rooms. It was only $120 a week, which included the internet, then just share of water and electricity bills.
I just put my application in about 3 weeks go now. I was wondering when the next step will be happening, so I called up Airservices and asked and they said that the process takes 6-8 months until an offer is made. So it looks like it will be a bit of a wait. So hopefully in the next couple of weeks or so, I make it to the next stage.
Then I found this thread and read it for the past couple of hours and now feel less confident about the application. But at least if you make it to the end, you know you're cut out for it. But I think I just may be worrying too much. Fingers crossed I get a response...
Thanks for the maths-related advice! I think I'll be ok with the testing because the degree I'm currently studying is fairly maths-heavy, but probably need to brush up on mental arithmetic just to be sure.
Another question: while training at the academy, does anyone know what the parking facilities are like and approx. how much it would cost each day? I don't want to sound cheap, but I'm trying to create a budget to work out if I could actually afford to survive in Vic before progressing with my application.
Parking is free, secure and under cover everywhere in the Melbourne centre compound. so no worries there. If you're from out of town and want to fly home, you can park your car there for free and not have to worry about it. If you're on a tower course, you'll have to spend 4 days at the BoM training school in Broadmeadows. I and one of my course-mates had our cars broken into during the course and getting Airservices to pay for it, despite what's in clause 21 (or is it 23) of the the agreement is a bit of a problem.
I just put my application in about 3 weeks go now. I was wondering when the next step will be happening, so I called up Airservices and asked and they said that the process takes 6-8 months until an offer is made. So it looks like it will be a bit of a wait. So hopefully in the next couple of weeks or so, I make it to the next stage.
Hey Benjipc
I applied on the 4th June and if everything goes to plan I will be starting on the november course, I can't complain about the speed of the process, i got feedback / a result at least every 2-3 weeks.
Here’s how it is. I first applied in 2010, started the course in April 2011, finished the course in May 2012, rated in August 2012 (enroute). I started with no prior ATC experience but do have a private fixed wing licence and a commercial heli licence. Having previous aviation knowledge helps with some things like comms, nav and met but don’t rely on it to get you through the college.
At the college, there’s enough car parking and it’s all in the secure compound so you don’t need to worry about that. Even if you have to park on the other side of the compound, it’s not that big so don’t complain. There’s no public transport to the compound so you’ll have to drive or carpool.
In the college you’ll get a locker for your stuff and there’s a rec room with TV, tables, fridges and microwaves. In the main building there a cafeteria with food and coffees and so forth.
About places to live, if you can live with others in your group it will help, can discuss ideas and help understand what you’re learning, test each other and save money of petrol. I live 20 minutes away in Taylors Hill, good area, lots of shops etc. If you’re looking for somewhere just look at google maps and find somewhere in a reasonable distance.
Anyway, a couple of acronyms to remember that will help get to the other end:
-HTFU (harden the f**K up)
-RTFQ (read the f**king question)
The application process:
1. 1.Apply online: Just submit your resume and wait for them to get back to you, it takes time, if you want to know how much, read the rest of this thread.
2. 2.Online cognitive tests: Psychometric cognitive tests including things like pattern recognition, memory, logical reasoning, numerical reasoning and mental arithmetic under pressure. You get practice runs ahead of the real ones, not as scary as you might think, but do them somewhere you can concentrate.
3. 3.Phone interview: Just answer their questions. You get to organize a time for when the interview will be so they don’t just spring it on you at random. Try not to sound like an idiot.
4. 4.Testing day: Don’t try to act how you think they want you to, just be honest and be yourself. There’s no point trying to guess ahead of what they want, you’ll do more damage to your prospects than you realize. You redo the online tests so don’t cheat the first time… Also, wear good clothes, don’t turn up looking like a hobo or that you were just at the beach.
5. 5.References Checked: Just choose good references and tell them ahead of time (ie don’t use your current boss if you haven’t told them you’re looking for another job.)
6. 6.Offer: It’ll come eventually, or you’ll get told you’re not in, either way, they’ll tell you… eventually
7. 7.Start Course: Turn up and don’t cock it up.
For me the time from initial application to starting the course was one year.
Once you start the first week will be corporate induction, not too exciting but the company gets to check off the box, and you get a free dinner and maybe lunches. After that there’ll be a few quick tests to cover off the pre course info that you’ll be given. The exams aren’t graded, just used to see where you’re at.
After that is when the fun begins. The first few months will be pretty much solid theory, there’s a lot to learn in a short time for a while there will be at least one exam every week, often two. Study hard and don’t miss any days of school, you’ll get behind pretty quick if you do.
The academy runs on three different shifts, all Monday to Friday. 0700-1500, 0900-1700 and 1100-1900. You most likely won't be on the same shift for the duration of training, they arrange it according to instructor and sim availability. I found the 0700 shift to be the best (despite NOT being a morning person) as it avoids the traffic in both directions and allows for extra work to be done in your own time. You won't have any say in what shift your on or when it changes, so when it does, as above, HTFU and don't complain.
Some of the subjects:
Air law- it’s useful and relevant, if you don’t like it HTFU. Rules of the air Comms Meteorology Navigation Principles of flight Flight instruments and nav aids Aircraft type knowledge in flight emergency response SAR Aerodromes and other landing surfaces Human Factors Separation Standards Flight planning unlawful interference
… and many many more.
Additional to all the lectured units, there will be a lot of computer based training CBT. Some of these units are useful and actually teach you stuff you need, some are just so the company can put a tick in the box and be difficult to get through in one go. Most of them will have questions to answer during and at the end and completion won't be marked until all have been answered correctly.
After the main theory block ends you get to start in the sim. First real module is DTI –directed traffic information. Basically it’s all about providing an information service to pilots, who is in their way, weather, SAR alerting etc. Not control but proving information service.
Next is Procedural control. This is a big one, lots of different standards to keep aircraft apart and you need to be able to know which one to use, and have a back up, and a plan C D and E. This module goes for a few months. You'll start by learning each of the sep standards in order and the sim exercise will be based on that one standard. You'll learn vertical, time, longitudinal and lateral standards. Eventually it'll be up to you as to which standard you think will work best.
Following is radar control. Less separation standards (1000 feet, 5 miles-how hard can it be?) but a lot of different techniques and methods to achieve the right outcome. Again, this module will go for a few months. There are two parts, controlled airspace and uncontrolled. The latter is all information service and the former is stopping planes from hitting, the difference is you can see where they actually are, not just where the system thinks they are (big difference).
Last module is Combined ops. In this there’s no new learning but you’re doing both radar and procedural control at the same time, much bigger airspace, more aircraft and the sim runs go for twice as long. In a mixed environment you need to be able to switch easily between different standards and your able to establish them in different ways. The final exams will be over two days.
Throughout all of the sim time there will also be more theory units being run at the same time, so keep studying hard. Also, whenever possible, get extra sim runs done on your own time for extra practice. Each day you’ll get a write up of how you went for the exercise, what you did right, did wrong, completely screwed, and need to work on. These will all be part of your training record (forever). Several times through the module you’ll also do Progressive Evaluations (PE), more or less a semi-exam.
When you finally finish at the college and go to the real world (good feeling) you’ll start the first few weeks doing famil on your sectors (plugging in behind the controller and watching, learning). You may be able to get a bit of time off between finishing at the academy and starting in the real world, but this depends on the circumstances of the group you're going to.
After a while of famil is the ops sim which will be sector specific training for however long it takes than you’ll be plugging in and talking to real aircraft. During this time you will have an ‘on the job training instructor’ OJTI sitting with you and teaching you what to do and making sure you don’t kill anybody. When they think you are ready the group checky will watch instead of the OJTI for a day or two and then sign the papers to get you your ATC license which will turn up from casa a few weeks later.
There seem to be longer delays for field training in Brisbane Centre than in Melbourne, as Fatty182 will know...
At the end of the day, if you get an offer, study hard and don’t plan on going out too much or taking time off during your training. The instructors are there to help you get through so if you don’t know something, ask them. Do extra work whenever possible, it can only help. Become friends with your classmates, they’re all in the same boat and you won’t pass without the help of everyone around you.
If you don’t work hard you will fail, no two ways around it. Even if you do work hard, you may still fail, that’s life. But If you do get through, it’s awesome. Good pay and 12% super, good people to work with, fun job and lots of overtime available if you want it (about $85 per hour lowest level rate).
If you have any questions, feel free to ask, but I won’t answer about what the tests and so forth are for recruitment.
later
Last edited by Kieran17; 21st Sep 2012 at 03:05.
Reason: added shifts and CBT plus a bit extra here and there...
wow! Great post Kieran! That's awesome.. Now I really want that phone call saying I got in and with a start date...
As for assessment day creeping up on you, it did for me.. The phone interview was on Friday August 31st where she mentioned the assessment centre will be in Brisbane sometime next month and she was hoping to send emails out the following week... Sure enough email was received on the Monday around lunch time and then logged in only to find out I had to be in Brisbane in 7 days for my assessment! I made it work. Booked flights, hotel, and leave from work... But I made it to the assessment day.
I waited a long time between steps except for between phone interview and assessment day which was 10 days.
I waited almost 2 months after I did the online tests to find out I passed.
It was explained to me that we are processed in batches and I would've been at the beginning of the batch.
Good luck to everyone and thanks again Kieran for that detailed post about the training.
Your thread has to be the best example of the entire Airservices recruitment & training process ever posted. Finally a detailed description of how it works & what to expect.
I have just completed my assessment day & await the call.
Yeah sadly Kieran is right, field training is taking a bit longer in Brisbane that in Melbourne. All my coursemates in Melbourne are rated (and have been for a few weeks now) and the two of us who came up back to Brisbane have only just started in the sim a week ago. Having said that, I've heard some people in Melbourne are getting delays now too...
I've been reading this forum ever since I first applied to be a trainee (back in February 2012) and wanted to say a big thanks for all of the detailed info about the application process. If I hadn't read this forum first, I would have been stressing about the long breaks between correspondence but can confirm that the timeframes set out on this forum were spot-on for me.
In August, I was initially offered a place on the September enroute course but due to reading this forum about how long it takes to get medical clearance from CASA, I ended up requesting to go on the following course (November). And I'm glad I did because I've only just received it even after phoning CASA every couple of days to chase it up. I'll now be moving down from Brisbane for the enroute training course commencing in Melbourne on 7th November.
I have a question about the Learning Academy. I will be moving into a share-house for my stay in Melbourne and will only be taking limited possessions. Will it be necessary for me to buy a laptop for my stay in Melbourne, or are there computers/internet access available to students for study and/or personal use at the Learning Academy?
I'm wondering if anyone starting on the November course has received their official "Offer Letter" yet? I was told they were still negotiating the new Collective Agreement so an offer letter wouldn't be prepared until negotiations were finalised. Is this the case for everyone else?
Also, how long from the first day of the course do we have to wait for our first paycheck?
And just one last question (which may seem a bit silly), what is the dress code like at the Learning Academy? I'm just wondering what to pack!
Firstly, there are computers available at the learning academy, but you're behind the ASA firewall, so some sites you won't be able to access. I have never tried, but I assume things like facebook, etc are blocked, so if you are looking to visit those sort of sites, you will need your own internet elsewhere. Checking of webmail and so forth is allowed however.
As for pay, we got paid on the first pay fortnight after we started, and it was for one week pretty much, given the date we started. So I guess unless there is some drama with paperwork, you should get paid no more than a fortnight after you start. For information, today is pay day if you wanted to work forward to when you start
Also, they should tell you all this, but if you are driving down to Melbourne, you can fill out a form when you get there to get money back for travel expenses. For me at least, it worked out way more than it cost me to get down there, so that's a win
Dress code - in the paperwork they send you, they say corporate wear. Which is what everyone wears..... for about the first week or two until you realise everyone wears whatever they want pretty much. Wear something smart for the first week, then after that as long as the clothes are neat and reasonable, they don't make an issue about it. These days they even give you a couple of Airservices shirts to wear if you want
Good luck with everything, and don't hesitate to ask more questions if you have them
An email came out about two weeks ago regarding dress code at the academy. Basically, shirts must have collars, most people wear the Airservices shirts, no hoodies, no trackpants and no beanies or hats in the classrooms or sims.
Facebook is blocked on the academy computers, as is this forum I believe.
They tell you they'll either pay for your fuel to drive down, or for your airfares. What they don't tell you is they work on a fixed rate per kilometre, which turned out to be enough for fuel, accommodation and meals on the way down.
Starting at the Learning Academy
