futr-kofeshop-dweler

Hello kiddies, this is the world most expensive assistant in training, with a quick question, no not about money / working conditions / or who is dipping who's pen in the company ink! This question is about ATC stuff, and it's area-ish stuff so here's the million dollar question:

Is there a difference between a crusing level and a flight level? I'm asking because we're looking at filed flight plans, and it seems pilots have to file not only a requested flight level, but also a requested cruising level... So what's the diff??? Any???

Thanks in advance for any light shed, and hopefully this ATC question can be dealt with quick, so we can get to more important stuff like when is DCA gonna give me 70,000 dhs a month, plus free medical???

AirNoServicesAustralia

We have had a particular problem with EK flights filing incremental requested flight levels for each waypoint of their flight until at their cruising level. This means that we get the level requested between RANBI and BALUS passed to us from Duabi APP which is automatically the level we then pass to Bahrain. This level may be FL220 even though their requested cruising level is FL360. Due to the congestion through this area by the time EK gets up to FL220 and requests higher, all the level above may already have been assigned to other dpeartures/overflights, which means due to this way of flightplanning they have missed out on a higher level.

Therefore if that is what the question is referring to, the UAE ACC doesn't want to know the levels the aircraft will be crossing at intermediate waypoints (ie. The requested flight levels) but instead we want to know the requested cruising level of the aircraft so that we can coordinate that to Bahrain and book that level for the aircraft.

I hope that makes sense and helps.

peatair

Cruising Level

a) Flight Planned Cruising Level = the level the pilot is requesting to fly at. It is usually the optimum level for the aircraft taking into account all relevanty factors e.g. fuel consumption, wind velocity etc.

b) Assigned Cruising level = the level allocated by ATC to the flight.

Apart from low flying aircraft, cruising level will usually be a FLIGHT LEVEL.

futr-kofeshop-dweler

Thanks guys!!

Minesapint

Why not apply the highest requested level in your airspace? Make an allowance for aircraft performance too? FL220 and an A330 is not really a goer!

AirNoServicesAustralia

Because if the aircrafts final requested level is FL380 but they can't take that till past the Saudi/Bahrain boundary due to being too heavy that level is useless to us, cos we need to have everyone stacked up and procedurally separated for their trip to Europe via Saudi "Non-Radar" airspace.

From a limited Area perspective my understanding is that the aircraft on startup pass on their requested level to Dubai Tower. That level is then passed on to us, which is then dependant on other traffic passed on to Bahrain, which then passes it on to Saudi Arabia. Therefore with the volume of departures we get from Dubai and Abu Dhabi for Europe, we don't have time to decide what is a likely final requested level for an aircraft type and what isn't. What is passed to us, is what the aircraft gets. If traffic and workload permit we will endeavour to get them higher but that is not always possible.

Due to congestion on that route it is not unheard of for B747's to be FL260, FL240 or even FL220 final level from Dubai to Europe due to all levels occupied above.

P.S The highest requested level in our airspace is pretty useless as we are stacking the traffic up for Bahrain and Saudi, so the level they request in our 100 NM's or so is pretty irrellevant.

Minesapint

A very busy procedural route makes all the difference! Maybe ASAS In Trail Procedure (ITP) may help in the future, controllers and pilots manuals are being developed ADS-B in non radar airspace. If you are interested I can supply a lot of info on this. You will ber able to do non radar climbs "remain 8nm behind xxy ahead". I think its got a future but there are some issues regarding a loss of satellite info and reverting to procedural control.

AirNoServicesAustralia

Funny you should mention ADS-B as I have been dealing with a European company a lot lately who are at the forefront of implementing an ADS-B network throughout Europe, and they are installing the same gear in our new systems. I saw the display of the traffic, just from their small little antenna (and I mean small it was a 10 inch long piece of fibreglass!) whacked on the roof of their low rise building and the coverage was amazing.

The problem we have here in the Middle East is that it will take a lot of effort to drag the Saudis kicking and screaming out of the dark ages, and until that happens, their restrictive requirements tie the hands of all the FIR's down the line.

As far as the risk of losing satellite coverage, considering the number of satellites up there right now, the chances of that are slim and getting slimmer all the time. There will obviously be teething problems and challenges along the way but when compared to the huge initial outlay and maintenance costs for radar heads, and the fact that theoretically ADS-B antennae can be placed on oil rigs at sea etc, the potential for radar like coverage in most parts of the world is possible in the near future. If you own shares in Radar head manufacturers I would sell quick.

BwatchGRUNT

Cruising Level

a) Flight Planned Cruising Level = the level the pilot is requesting to fly at. It is usually the optimum level for the aircraft taking into account all relevanty factors e.g. fuel consumption, wind velocity etc.

b) Assigned Cruising level = the level allocated by ATC to the flight.

Apart from low flying aircraft, cruising level will usually be a FLIGHT LEVEL



I don't think I agree here.........FPL is the level filed by the airline which may involve stepped climbs or descents to avoid flow regulations, RFL (requested) is the pilots prefered cruising level based on wind, weight etc often higher than the FPL if they can get it due to more efficient fuel burn.