Vmc Descent
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VMC Descent
Hi there UK MATS part1 Chapter 3 page 3
VMC Climb and Descent
To avoid excessive delays to traffic when radar is not available, controllers may
authorise an aircraft to climb or descend in VMC provided:
a) essential traffic information is given;
b) the pilot of the aircraft climbing or descending agrees to maintain his own
separation from other aircraft;
c) it is during the hours of daylight;
d) the aircraft is flying in visual meteorological conditions;
e) the manoeuvre is restricted to Class D, E, F and G airspace at or below FL 100; and
f) the aircraft is not in CAS-T.
Hope this helps
authorise an aircraft to climb or descend in VMC provided:
a) essential traffic information is given;
b) the pilot of the aircraft climbing or descending agrees to maintain his own
separation from other aircraft;
c) it is during the hours of daylight;
d) the aircraft is flying in visual meteorological conditions;
e) the manoeuvre is restricted to Class D, E, F and G airspace at or below FL 100; and
f) the aircraft is not in CAS-T.
Hope this helps
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In a procedural environment it is very useful when you've run out of options and you have an aircraft who is ahead of and above another one eg aircraft at 5DME FL80 and another at 35DME FL70. If you have no deemed seperations the only option is to make the higher one wait or offer them a VMC descent to become number one (as long as the other one agrees). It can also save time when using departure seperations enabling an outbound to climb before they are procedurally separated from inbound or holding traffic.
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My guess would be, when aircraft are procedurally separated and want to change levels, instead of waiting for certain conditions to be met procedurally (i.e. deemers, distance on a radial, established on a procedure etc) they do a VMC climb/descent and expedite things that way.
Think of an aircraft holding overhead an airfield at 4000 feet and for some reason they can't make an approach.
There's another one at 5000 feet and they want to descend through and make an approach.
Something like that. But I've never done procedural approach so I'm only guessing...
Never experienced it in 12 years in ATC.
My guess would be, when aircraft are procedurally separated and want to change levels, instead of waiting for certain conditions to be met procedurally (i.e. deemers, distance on a radial, established on a procedure etc) they do a VMC climb/descent and expedite things that way.
Think of an aircraft holding overhead an airfield at 4000 feet and for some reason they can't make an approach.
There's another one at 5000 feet and they want to descend through and make an approach.
Something like that. But I've never done procedural approach so I'm only guessing...
My guess would be, when aircraft are procedurally separated and want to change levels, instead of waiting for certain conditions to be met procedurally (i.e. deemers, distance on a radial, established on a procedure etc) they do a VMC climb/descent and expedite things that way.
Think of an aircraft holding overhead an airfield at 4000 feet and for some reason they can't make an approach.
There's another one at 5000 feet and they want to descend through and make an approach.
Something like that. But I've never done procedural approach so I'm only guessing...
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Yonks ago flying for Ba Highland Division , we used the VMC procedure regularly . Used the exact phraseology that VATCO quoted . Our Ops manual had recently changed forbidding us to '' Cancel IFR '' . If it was a good day and we wished to see Fingal's Cave , or The Old Man of Hoy . Then we'd used that procedure whilst still on an IFR flight plan in the FIR .
Moreover , in the days when Kirkwall only had a VOR app to the West ; and the Haar was in . We needed to have practiced those skills above because ....
Early am flt from Shetland LSI to Kirkwall KOI , if we went upstairs ..... We'd have to hit the KOI beacon , procedural join , then outbound to the East , procedure turn , inbound on the approach , descend BUT ONLY to Circling minima , NOT the VOR MDA .... then with the strong Easterly wind blowing in Haar conditions , circle to land on easterly Runway . All well and good , but took absolutely ages and Circling minima was above the normal Haar cloudbase . ..... G/A divert to ABZ ... No good .
If we flew visually from LSI to KOI , we'd be underneath the Haar at 500' AGL/AMSL ; saw a lighthouse with vertical black and white stripes on our right . And a lighthouse with horizontal black and white stripes on our left [ or was it the other way around ? ] then we were on track for a left base join on the easterly at KOI . Simples...
Hope that helps ,
rgds condor
Moreover , in the days when Kirkwall only had a VOR app to the West ; and the Haar was in . We needed to have practiced those skills above because ....
Early am flt from Shetland LSI to Kirkwall KOI , if we went upstairs ..... We'd have to hit the KOI beacon , procedural join , then outbound to the East , procedure turn , inbound on the approach , descend BUT ONLY to Circling minima , NOT the VOR MDA .... then with the strong Easterly wind blowing in Haar conditions , circle to land on easterly Runway . All well and good , but took absolutely ages and Circling minima was above the normal Haar cloudbase . ..... G/A divert to ABZ ... No good .
If we flew visually from LSI to KOI , we'd be underneath the Haar at 500' AGL/AMSL ; saw a lighthouse with vertical black and white stripes on our right . And a lighthouse with horizontal black and white stripes on our left [ or was it the other way around ? ] then we were on track for a left base join on the easterly at KOI . Simples...
Hope that helps ,
rgds condor
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As an example, we don't have a backup radar, and noone nearby have, so if it stops working, we work procedurally. Which we already do with traffic outside radar coverage.
Furthermore, our view from the tower is restricted to the north and south by mountains, which means tower separation is hard to achieve until aircraft are relatively close by.
So often asking if the pilot would like to request VMC climb after departure, saves us 5-10 minutes... otherwise we'll have to wait until we can see the traffic from the tower...
We're fortunate enough that 90 percent of the time, it's severe VMC... otherwise things take time..
Furthermore, our view from the tower is restricted to the north and south by mountains, which means tower separation is hard to achieve until aircraft are relatively close by.
So often asking if the pilot would like to request VMC climb after departure, saves us 5-10 minutes... otherwise we'll have to wait until we can see the traffic from the tower...
We're fortunate enough that 90 percent of the time, it's severe VMC... otherwise things take time..
Used it occasionally at Prestwick in the 90's with BAe College PA34's for climb & descent, as one of the instructors was ex ATC & knew what it was about !
Heard a story from Preston Centre many,many moons ago - probably apochryphal - but to me typifies the great Aer Lingus spirit of days gone by :
On Blue 1 west of Wallasey, Shamrock reports a Bealine in sight & requests climb maintaining VMC, which is approved. Back comes a snooty Bealine : "Shamrock, how do you know that the aircraft you can see is me ?" , Quick as a flash, Shamrock replies " Bealine, how do you know the aircraft going through your level is me ?"
Heard a story from Preston Centre many,many moons ago - probably apochryphal - but to me typifies the great Aer Lingus spirit of days gone by :
On Blue 1 west of Wallasey, Shamrock reports a Bealine in sight & requests climb maintaining VMC, which is approved. Back comes a snooty Bealine : "Shamrock, how do you know that the aircraft you can see is me ?" , Quick as a flash, Shamrock replies " Bealine, how do you know the aircraft going through your level is me ?"
Know it was used at LATCC 20+ years ago.Outbound from Humberside 2miles in trail of company a/c both heading to DOGGA requests a higher level 'can you see the company a/c ahead' (both F27s) - 'yes' off you go then.May not have been regular,but certainly safe and expeditious !
de minimus non curat lex
Used it occasionally at Prestwick in the 90's with BAe College PA34's for climb & descent, as one of the instructors was ex ATC & knew what it was about !
Heard a story from Preston Centre many,many moons ago - probably apochryphal - but to me typifies the great Aer Lingus spirit of days gone by :
On Blue 1 west of Wallasey, Shamrock reports a Bealine in sight & requests climb maintaining VMC, which is approved. Back comes a snooty Bealine : "Shamrock, how do you know that the aircraft you can see is me ?" , Quick as a flash, Shamrock replies " Bealine, how do you know the aircraft going through your level is me ?"
Heard a story from Preston Centre many,many moons ago - probably apochryphal - but to me typifies the great Aer Lingus spirit of days gone by :
On Blue 1 west of Wallasey, Shamrock reports a Bealine in sight & requests climb maintaining VMC, which is approved. Back comes a snooty Bealine : "Shamrock, how do you know that the aircraft you can see is me ?" , Quick as a flash, Shamrock replies " Bealine, how do you know the aircraft going through your level is me ?"
The QFI was probably cygnet 66 (no.54 course)
Preston FIR ended January 1975.....?
@ parkfell
PK atc took over from NATS on 1/4/1993. Stu Mimmack was their first GM - Tim took over in 1994. Re Cygnet 66 , you are correct = JM & yes, Barton Hall closed in 1975. I was on a night shift in 1974 when the high level sector was transferred to West Drayton - I still have the Bluebell designator strip from the D Side, gifted to me by the Watch Manager :-)
PK atc took over from NATS on 1/4/1993. Stu Mimmack was their first GM - Tim took over in 1994. Re Cygnet 66 , you are correct = JM & yes, Barton Hall closed in 1975. I was on a night shift in 1974 when the high level sector was transferred to West Drayton - I still have the Bluebell designator strip from the D Side, gifted to me by the Watch Manager :-)
