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ATC Issues A place where pilots may enter the 'lions den' that is Air Traffic Control in complete safety and find out the answers to all those obscure topics which you always wanted to know the answer to but were afraid to ask.


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Old 4th November 2009, 19:29   #4861 (permalink)
Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lithuania, Vilnius
Age: 23
Posts: 2
And I just recieved mine to stage 1.
I am almost as thrilled as I was when I had to take these kind of tests back here in Lithuania, when I was joining to Air Traffic Control
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Old 4th November 2009, 21:47   #4862 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bourne End
Age: 24
Posts: 26
Chippy5687

I found out I got through to Stage 3 while in Australia too! ...Correlation??

I'm visiting the Heathrow tower on Monday night actually (can't wait!!) and going to Swanick on Sunday so it's going to be a busy weekend.

We were lucky enough to meet an ATCO at our stage 2 so she's the one who organised the Swanick visit and I emailed HR to see who I would need to speak to about getting a Heathrow tower visit so that's probably the best way to go. I called up on Monday and they booked me in for the following monday which was really speedy. Especially considering my stage 3 is on the 10th so I'm running out of time. Made it more difficult being in Australia and trying to organise the Swanick visit which I organised about 3 weeks ago now.

Really can't wait for my stage 3, I know that sounds crazy but I've been waiting a year for this opportunity and getting to go to Swanick and Heathrow within 24 hours of each other has really topped it all off.
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Old 4th November 2009, 22:52   #4863 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Heathrow
Age: 20
Posts: 5
Stage 2

Hey guys, just passed Stage 1 and been up to the heathrow tower, was amazing.

I just received the invitation to stage 2, seems a lot different to last time, is it just computer tests now? No interview, no motivation paper as last time they gave me a second lot of test materials to learn etc

Anyone just sit stage 2

Thanks

Scott
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Old 5th November 2009, 09:18   #4864 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Essex
Age: 21
Posts: 321
NATS stage 2 test preparation

S88
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Old 5th November 2009, 12:11   #4865 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: ireland
Age: 23
Posts: 9
hey good luck to everyone doing stage 1 tomorrow in prestwick!!! hope it goes well for us!!!
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Old 5th November 2009, 16:45   #4866 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Manchester
Age: 28
Posts: 8
Found out yesterday that I didn't pass Stage 1. Not sure how I feel about it, part just accepts it, the other part wants to try and bounce back next year.

Trouble is, as they don't give feedback, I do t know whether it's worth trying next year. On one hand I may have just missed out, on the other hand, I may have been kidding myself and been well short if the required standard...

I'm pretty sure I would have passed all the sections, apart from the dreaded cubes, which I probably got less than half right..
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Old 5th November 2009, 17:11   #4867 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Home
Posts: 100
Stage 3

As I had my stage 3 yesterday I thought I'd just do a quick post for anyone else going through this stage of selection:

My stage 3 was at Swanwick, I got there a little before 8am. Security at Swanwick is tighter and a bit more complicated than at the CTC so I'd advise leaving yourself a little extra time. There were six candidates including myself which I think is pretty standard. A little before 9 we met the assessors and were taken up to the HR offices. There were four assessors, I think three were HR and one was an ATCO from Prestwick.

The first part of the day is the group exercise. This lasts for about an hour and is a structured exercise designed so that the assessors can observe you working in a team. Its basically a board game, each candidate is given their own set of objectives and starts out by planning a solution to the game by themselves that will meet all their objectives. After this all the candidates have to come together to plan a single solution to the game that meets every individual candidates' objectives as well as a number of additional team objectives. You get 25 mins to do this. Further team objectives and additional rules are continually added to the game as it progresses.

Apparently the assessors are not at all interested in your solution to the game, the purpose of the exercise is to allow them to assess how you work as part of a group. We didn't finish the exercise in the time allowed (I think most groups don't) and I suspect it is probably impossible to come up with a solution that meets all the objectives (if it is possible I'd be very suprised if any group were able to find such a solution in the time permitted). Basically, don't worry too much about the game, instead you need to focus on how the team is working and how you fit into that team. You don't necessarily have to be a "leader" to do well - they are looking for you to work well as a team player so don't be a walkover but similarly you need to take note of everyone else's ideas and priorities and sometimes you will need to defer to them or sacrifice your priorities to acheive team goals.

After the team exercise the assessors split into pairs and started the interviews (two candidates at a time). Four candidates were interviewd before lunch, I was one of the two who had to wait until after. The interviews lasted about 1 1/2 hours for each candidate.

The interview is a structured (or "competency based") interview. If you've not had this type of interview before then I'd highly recommend doing some research into how this type of interview works as it is very different to the more normal kind of non-structured interview you may have had for other jobs, university etc. In a normal interview the assessors ask questions designed to allow you to demonstrate quite generally the kind of person you are. This type of interview can be very subjective and depends entirely upon the impression the assessors get of you. Structured interviews work very differently; in a structured interview every question is designed to give you the opportunity to demonstrate whether or not you possess a specific character trait or competency and your answers are marked against a set of predetermined criteria. This kind of interview is much more objective and rather than coming out of it with a general impression of who you are the assessors end up with a score quantifying how well you match up to the criteria they have determined are most important for the role.

The list of competencies you are being assessed for is available here:http://atcocareers.co.uk/pdf/Hints-a...-Day-Three.pdf

Familiarise yourself with this list well. You will be asked two questions to help you demonstrate each compentency. In each question (apart from the ATC motivation questions) you will be asked to describe a specific scenario you have been in where you have been presented with a certain challenge or have acted in a certain way which relates to the competency. You will then be asked further questions about your scenario to help the assessors determine how you handled the situation, what things you took into consideration when determining how to act etc. Generally the first question you are asked for each competency will be about a time you have successfully worked in an environment that tested a that competency, the second will often (but not always) then be about a time in which you were unable to work successfully (I assume they want to see if you were able to learn from your mistakes and how well you are able to assess your own reasons for failure).

Its worth noting that for every question you have to give a specific example of scenario you have been in. You can't make any generalisations, they want a specific scenario and they want to know specifically how you acted in that scenario and what you were thinking about when making your decisions. I'd highly recommend thinking about specific examples based on the list in the document before the interview day (at least two for each competency). I also made a list of all the different activities I do and past jobs I've had so that if a question came up that I couldn't match one of my prepared answers to I could very quickly think through my list to try and recall a suitable scenario, this helped me a lot. Don't worry too much if you are struggling to come up with a really clever example, any example will do no matter how trivial - they aren't particularly interested in the actual example but want to understand how you reacted and how you decided what course of action to take as this can tell them a lot about how you might cope and behave in situations that will test similar competencies if they give you the job.

The only exception to the above were the questions about ATC motivation. For these they are looking for a more general picture of why you want to be and ATCO and are also keen to see how much you understand about what the job and the training entails. For this all I can say is that having been on a few visits to control towers or area centres makes an absolute world of difference: I felt I was able to answer questions about what ATCOs do every day with so much more confidence and authority having visited some of these facilities and had the opportunity to watch ATCOs at work and ask them questions.

After the interview we then got the opportunity to view the LACC ops room (quite a site to behold) and had a short briefing on how it all works and what all the different people were responsible for.

The day finished about 4.30, the thumb twiddling and constant checking of my inbox begins....

If anyone has any questions I'd be happy to help.

P
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Old 5th November 2009, 17:18   #4868 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Essex
Age: 22
Posts: 13
Pat and Liz - thanks for your help on booking a tower visit. I might see if I can arrange something for Swanwick as well maybe - let me know how yours goes Liz. Did you have a good time in Oz?

Thanks for that very detailed post Pat! Was a great help although has now slightly scared me! Haven't picked a date for mine but think I will give myself as much time as possible to prepare. Did you get an impression from the interviewers as to how it went? Glad that a lot of our stage 2 people got through too!
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Old 5th November 2009, 17:27   #4869 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Home
Posts: 100
Unfortunately not, they were very professional and didn't give anything away. I felt I did quite well for myself and did the best I could, if I don't get it then its because their standard is extremely high and I don't think I'll feel too bad about myself (though will be sad that I don't get it of course).

Its not really that scary, just prepare well and you'll do fine
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Old 5th November 2009, 18:03   #4870 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 60
Crikey. They have changed things significantly from when I completed S3. Good post.
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Old 5th November 2009, 19:07   #4871 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hampshire
Age: 34
Posts: 13
I passed stage 1 too! Congratulations SimonSoton for passing - stage 2, here we come!
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Old 5th November 2009, 19:26   #4872 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: scotland
Posts: 15
basil, when did u sit your stage 1? mine was 2 weeks ago today and im chomping at the bit to know my results!!
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Old 5th November 2009, 21:23   #4873 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hampshire
Age: 34
Posts: 13
I did stage 1 last monday - 26th, at CTC. I know SimonSoton did his on the same day, and it looks like both he and I heard yesterday that we had passed. Maybe you should give HR a ring, just to politely enquire about results - keeping my fingers crossed for you!
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Old 6th November 2009, 00:06   #4874 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Essex
Age: 21
Posts: 321
Hmm, I did my S2 on the 27th, maybe I'll hear tomorrow then!
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Old 7th November 2009, 18:43   #4875 (permalink)
LMX
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: I don't know anymore
Age: 23
Posts: 8
Just filling in the application, but I'm confused about the Skills part. Is it correct that the skills you choose have to match a skill on their list?

For example, I type in "mu..." and find that "Multi-Tasking" is available on the list. I choose Multi-Tasking, but then I have to specify how many years experience I have and at what level. Hmm, I have 3 years experience of multi-tasking at an expert level?

Anyone know what they want here? Should I include just obvious things, like Pilot because I have a pilot's licence, or personality traits as well (multi-tasking, teamwork etc...)?
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Old 8th November 2009, 13:17   #4876 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
Age: 22
Posts: 11
LMX,

When I was filling in that application I found it a bit frustrating that I couldn't type in the skills I wanted to put in and had to choose off the list, but there's no way around it. You don't have to fill in how long you've had the skill for I think, so for the things like multi-tasking I simply didn't put int he time span for my experience. I included personality traits and skills and they accepted it.

* * *

And... is anyone here going to Swanwick on Wednesday the 11th for a visit? When I emailed them to ask they said there was a visit happening then so I'm going along and I was wondering if there was just going to be two of us or a few people. And if there is anyone here going then I thought I'd just say hello
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Old 8th November 2009, 21:23   #4877 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Essex
Age: 21
Posts: 321
Thankfully I received good news about my S2 assessment and I have my S3 booked for December. I'm looking to get a tower visit scheduled soon. Would be nice to get an area visit booked too. Do you think NATS will have any objection to me looking to book a visit at both establishments?

S88
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Old 8th November 2009, 22:28   #4878 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Home
Posts: 100
Having just sat S3 I would say the more visits you can fit in the better, it definitely helped at interview. With towers it's worth visiting some at different sized airports as well, I went to Southampton and Heathrow and they were VERY different.

I don't think NATS will have a problem with you visiting several establishments. Whether or not each facility is able to accomodate you is down to the staff at each location so it isn't like you'd be taking up lots of one person's time by going to several places or anything like that, and in my experience staff at most facilities or more than happy to show you around provided it's not too busy.
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Old 8th November 2009, 23:35   #4879 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: leeds
Age: 20
Posts: 5
Student 88,
What day in Dec are you going?
xx
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Old 8th November 2009, 23:38   #4880 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bourne End
Age: 24
Posts: 26
Was very lucky today to have been able to sit with ATCO's in both Area control and Terminal at the Swanwick en-route center. It was incredible. If you ever get the oppotunity to spend a good part of your day in Swanwick do it. Heathrow tower tomorrow then Stage 3 on tuesday!! Wish me luck!
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