ATC IssuesA place where pilots may enter the 'lions den' that is Air Traffic Control in complete safety and find out the answers to all those obscure topics which you always wanted to know the answer to but were afraid to ask.
Whilst flying yesterday i found all the controllers and pilots to be in really good spirits,but a special mention of the Thames radar controller @ appx 14:00 deserves a special mention.Not only did he clear me through the city zone whilst they were busy(had to change to tower for co-ordination!!never had to do that before!)after clearing a C172(i think G--CC was the call sign)he asked him "only being nosey,how long did it take you from Perth ??" 3.5hrs was the reply but it just makes it a pleasant day out when people are interested in the small boys!! Hope everyone had as good a day as we did,and keep up the friendly work atcers!
Flying out of Biggin means I often speak to Thames and I agree that they are a very friendly bunch. Thanks for the excellent service. It's much appreciated by GA who are seeing facilities being reduced, especially LARS, as we move towards a privatised service.
<< Thanks for the excellent service. It's much appreciated by GA who are seeing facilities being reduced, especially LARS, as we move towards a privatised service. >>
Don't you mean "It's appreciated by GA who are seeing FREE facilities being reduced."
If I hire your aeroplane, can I have it for free please ??
No I did not mean free service. GA pays an enormous amount in taxes which contributes towards the cost of running the air traffic service. As I hire a plane and don't own one I couldn't possible offer you the free use of it.
With respect I think you are wrong. It is not cheap to fly in the UK and if you look at the costs of CAA Licences/Exams you will be amazed!
As an ATCO who flies occasionally, I think that the job of LARS/Thames etc is so very important in the airspace of the South East which is very complex. These units are not only constantly diggin VFR stuff out of Class A, but making gentle reminders like "Not above 3400' til North of xxx" and "Your track will take you just inside CAS".
I agree, that the LARS job is very expensive, but I feel important to all as it undoubtedly helps protect the airliners and thopse IFR in Class A.
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"Opinions are like arseholes.....everybodies got one" # John Wayne
160 - dont be such an arse! You seem to forget that atc units providing LARS get paid to do so, therefore GA are quite entitled to utilise the service whereever it may be. They are as equally entitled to utilise controlled airspace, providing they can comply with the requirements, and they are also entitled to a radar service if the atco concerned is able to provide same. Comments like yours do a dis service to the hard work atcos all around the country put in assisting G/A - get a life.
Roundout.. I'm curious. "GA pays an enormous amount in taxes that contribute to the ATC service". I'm not entirely sure about this but NATS (the operator of Thames RADAR) doesn't as far as I'm aware recieve any funding directly from the GA community.
Also what taxes??? VAT goes to HMG, not NATS. Licencing charges to CAA, not NATS (two separate things now anyway).
The MOD do contribute to the cost of LARS, is that what you're getting at? Your taxes fund the MoD, who in turn stump up for LARS?
To state my own opinion, I think LARS is a bloody good idea and a real enhancement to flight safety, wherever it is provided and whoever provides it. The ATCOs who provide this service (I was one, once) do a fine job and I do not want this to disappear for want of funding.
Many units provide ATSOCA in class G airspace because it provides some sort of "known environment" for them to work in. This has benefits for all, but cost is still a sticky point, particularly with the bean counters..
You're right - nothing is for free. The real travesty here is that none of the taxes on fuel (which we pay on AVGAS, but the commercials DON'T on AVTUR) go towards paying for services, but straight into the treasury pot. Then there's licence issue, examination fees, medicals. If you're an owner or in a group there's the charges you get hit by with every bit of paper work you have to get renewed via the CAA.
Just remember - EVERY airspace user keeps us ATCO's in work - not just the heavy boys - or do you not get involved in ATSOCAS?
CM
[This message has been edited by Chilli Monster (edited 30 May 2001).]
Well at least someone is approving new LARS units, because the trend has been the other way. I agree that NATS should be looking at a service to provide LARS around the London TMA releasing Thames Radar to concentrate on London City and Biggin inbounds and providing Heathrow, Gatwick and especially Luton and Stansted with a safety net, to counter act the numerous zone infringers ( and of course free up the Airport approach controllers to concentrate on utilising those precious runway slots).
If operators knew how much of a problem traffic outside for example, Stansted zone can pose to the safety of their aircraft, especially on '05' operations, I'm sure that they would agree to some of their Nav. fees going to help provide a LARS service, as described. The western CTA at Stansted has a base of 1500' and I have it on good authority that sometimes on a daily basis VFR aircraft pass through at 2000' plus, without talking to any ATC unit. If a good London LARS service was available to pilots,to assist them around the London Zones, then hopefully an incident or worse may be avoided.What will it take?
And as a City controller (in the loosest sense of the word) I would also like to say a big thank-you to Thames for their high standard of service they provide our customers with!
We also love GA pilots who come to say hallo to the Dome, It makes us feel like all that tax payers wasn't wasted after all! Who needs decent pay rises when you have the beauty of that white elephant to stare at all day!
[This message has been edited by Expedite your backtrack! (edited 31 May 2001).]
Friendly ATC!! 
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