Poor School Grades

[Jeffrey S]

Hi,

Just wondering if you could help

i am a student PPL (22yrs) and wondering whether it is necessary to go back to school to do my GCSE's again as i got grade D's in every one of them. Its not that i am not capable, its because i got into a bad crowd during my final year at school and ended up messing up my chances of doing my "a" levels (im sure some have you have done this...wem not all perfect) and chances of getting into the air. after a few years life experience, i have now decided to go the whole way stage by stage. i have sold my house and retained enough money to do my PPL/IMC/Night/CPL IR ect ect but i am wondering if even after all this i woudlnt get a job because of my bad school grades?

Should i quit flying for now and go to college (bearing in mind i work full time) or should i keep flying and see what happens.


Please help!

regards

JS
(Sorry if any spelling mistakes)

Thank you very much for your reply, much app'd

I forgot to mention - its not much but i have a few small quals (city & guilds, nvqs ect in electronics)

apologies to the moderator for the duplications too

[AIRWAY]

Hi There,

Have you thought of Distance Learning GCSE's ? That way you can work, study and fly...

Regards

[Jeffrey S]

hello there

many thanks for your reply.



i havent actually, thats a good idea, is it worth me doing them again do you think?

[AIRWAY]

Hi,

Yes i think it is worth it, i am a PPL student as well also working full time and im 21, i will be re-taking 1 GCSE via distance learning, if you can dedicate at least 3 hours per week to the GCSE study then it should be no problem at all... Anything else just drop me a PM.

Good Luck

[Hulk Hogan]

I left school at 15 with no qualifications at all. I'm now flying a 737. Funded all the ATPL's myself.

[df1]

Jeff,

I didn't particularly "excel" at school. And although I did have to chance to do A-levels I passed over that in favour of a job - a quite well payed one for a school leaver!! And it was that job that got me into flying.

I worked seven days a week to pay for my PPL and looking back its hard to see how it would have worked differently. The prospect of going to Uni and running up a debt held no appeal! Much rather run yp a debt flying!

Jeff, if you want to study for any qualification - GCSE, A-Levels or degrees - thats a good thing. I considered doing something along the lines of an Open University course but its finding the time. Making it more difficult was the fact that I was already planning my advanced aviation training and I didn't want conflicting interests.

I don't want to offer the wrong advise here but if you're on the road to a career in aviation then focus 100% on that. You may indeed excel in your training and find the whole range of subjects fascinating! With regards to jobs I really don't know - but I would say that you will get a job on the merits of your experience and your abilities as demonstrated during selection.

I think its only a problem if you let it be a problem!! Provided you are confident that you can tackle the subjects then you you'll be OK.

You might want to visit one of these Aviation Training Seminars that are held from time to time. I've never been to one but you could try asking some of the companies what they think.

Besides, there are so many different jobs [piloting] in aviation and you are sure to get in somewhere.

Whatever you decide - all the best!! :ok:

df1

[Jeffrey S]

hulk hogan i admire you.



well done and i hope to follow youre example. how long ago was that? was it before now where degrees are so commonplace?

df1 thank you for your kind advice


in fact thank you all, youre all a great help.

[Groundbased]

I would think long and hard about the need to re-take exams. I would only re-take something that is going to assist you in your chosen course, perhaps maths and physics. Then you might look for other qualifications that will build up your background education in a way that supports your ambition to fly, and which replace your missing A levels. I am not a pilot so I can’t recommend anything to you in this line but I am sure others will. Again as a non-pilot I don’t know if the lack of GCSE’s will make a difference to you. I can, however, give you some general advice.

Be sure of the relevance of any additional qualifications to your goal. There are a myriad of courses and qualifications out there and you need to find the ones that most closely match your objectives. I have spoken to people who have later regretted choices they made as they have subsequently found their qualification was not quite the one they needed. It may be that the ATPL’s etc are all you need.

Do not underestimate the commitment required to successfully study while you work. I completed a degree level diploma in management whilst working full time in a fairly high-pressure job. The University planned timetable suggested the course could be completed in 18 months although 36 months was the limit. It took me the full three years to do it and I handed in my last project on the last allowable day.

Consider whether your circumstances will support success. I was commuting to London at the time and the train journey gave me time to read a lot of the material. On the other hand things like getting married had a negative influence on the amount of work I could get done. I would guess that the flying training you have indicated in your post will be pretty much a full time occupation.

So in summary, develop a strategy, find out what you need (this is a good start) and put together a plan. Make sure the qualifications you choose support your goals and get commitment from your friends and family to help you through.

I sincerely hope that you achieve your goal. If you plan it well you will give yourself the best chance of succeeding. I hope this is of some use to you, good luck.

[Jeffrey S]

thank you very much for you comments groundbased i have fully digested them and it as given me yet another few things to consider. i sometimes kick myself on how much time i have wasted before i was married where i could have done some of this but, nobody can turn the clock back, its all about the present and future now, so i will put a more detailed plan together and do some long and hard thinking, especially after the excellent/ upbuilding comments & advice i have received today

[Sagey]

The only ones I would reconsider sitting are English, Maths and Physics. It is not uncommon for job specs to ask for at least a C in English and Maths (general jobs, not specifically flying).

Maths and Physics will help with ATPL exams.

Best of luck
Sagey

[Jeffrey S]

yes youre quite right actually. at the moment i work for hotpoint indesit, where i beat 1,000 applicants for the 8 places nationwide for rookie engineers, they asked for 5 gcses C and above in maths science and english (for the extensive physics and maths content of the course) and somehow im here, goodness knows how i got here but i feel luck were on my sidei tell thee!

[Nopax,thanx]

I would say don't worry too much about the exams - obviously if you can do the vitals like maths and english via a different route without too much difficulty, then go for it...my son really shone in his GCSE's, and went on to college to do his 'A' levels.

He was one of their top students in History, and chose to apply to do a History degree at a London University.

When the 'A' level results came in, he only got a 'D' in History, and the rest of the students on the course did worse. A re-mark of the paper (£37.....:mad: ) made no difference.

Fortunately, he had done well enough in his other two subjects (Maths and Physics) to get enough 'points' to join his chosen degree course at Uni.....

That was in 2000, fast forward three years and myself and Mrs.Nopax sitting at the Degree Awards ceremony, proudly watching son collect his 2.1 in History.

Now he has that qualification, the 'A' levels don't mean much anymore.

So, the moral is exams don't mean a lot once they are in the past; you've already acheived a lot by the sound of it, look ahead with confidence and don't dwell too much on the past.

The distance learning sounds like a good idea, as it won't gobble up too much time.

Good luck
:ok:

[Jeffrey S]

nopax thanx,


2.1? give my regards to your son!

Yes i have to learn to not dwell on the past, nobody can turn the clock back, thanks for your comments very much. Time to go to Wolverhampton College's Enrolment evening by the looks of things?!

[xyz_pilot]

It all depends on the market for new pilots.

Back in about '87 if you were "warm & walking" and had a CPL you were in.

Back in '91 1,000,000 hours and two trips to the moon would not get you a job.


If a company has 500 c.v's to fill two posts for first jobs it needs to get the YTS in the office to turn a big pile of c.v's into a small pile. For this job you may need 5 gcse and 2 A or even a BSc. Hard but I think true.

If the company only has 25 C.V's for the jobs its the person behind the c.v. that counts.

[GrantT]

Ugh, i get my GCSE results tomorrow and seeing the thread title "Poor School Grades" isn't really comforting :ugh:

[G-ALAN]

I don't really think it makes too much difference once you have an ATPL. Remember there are other routes you can take in professional aviation, such as Instructor or business flying and progress from there. I would recommend doing a course in maths and physics perhaps GCSE but only because it will help alot with your flying training. I did Higher maths and physics at college and found it helped a treat when I did my PPL, and will certainly help when I do my ATPL.

I wish you the best of luck with the flight training :ok:

[Mattuk]

Hey. I have just finished my A Levels and I am going to the OAT selection process for the APP course on 1st September. This course is zero to frozen ATPL.

To get through the initial selecton (internet application), I think you have to have at least 5 GCSE's at C or above. I acheived 10, but continued and earned one AS Level and 3 A Levels. This is obviously not really to get on a training programme as min req's are 5 GCSE's. However, when you sit infront of BA/BMI/MyTravel etc... chief pilots, they are probably going to have plenty of applicants for each job offer. What I am saying is you want as many "strings to your bow" as possible (sports teams etc...) and I hope showing application with GCSE's and A Levels will only benefit that!

Sorry if I am repeating anything that has already been said.

Matt

[olly]

Jeffrey,

Qualifications go a long way to getting the job (that’s why people get them) but I wish it was as simple as just getting the grades. I have no inside knowledge of the air industry but I guess that it’s similar to other industries e.g. pharmaceutical (which I do have knowledge of) where it’s not what you know but who you know.

I have just turned 23 and I have 4 A’ levels, a 2.1 in physiology and a years experience working for GSK. However I have always wanted to fly so I have been trying to land a job up North as a medical rep. so I can live with parents and save the cash to fund myself (not worked out best route yet). So what I’m trying to say in a round about way is look at your plus points - your past may not have given you the grades you wanted or even deserve, but it has given you the finances to possibly attain your dream (wish I had the cash to hand, oh well back to the grind).

So go for it and best of luck, better to fail trying rather than die wondering what could have been!!!


Regards


Olly

[captbod]

I hated my school days and like HH I left at 15 with no 'O' levels. 25 years later and having spent 17 of them in the RAF (non aircrew) I now fly turboprops . The difference between studying at school and studying for my ATPL's is that I wanted and indeed needed to do well with regard to the ATPL's (not to mention the money it was costing). If you can get another crack at your GCSE's all well and good if not at least try and pick up some maths & physics study packs , fortunately for you , you still have age on your side whatever you decide , my only regret is that had I put the effort in at school as I did when studying for my ATPL's I might have been in the position I'm in now 20 years ago, so best of luck.:ok:

[mrsurrey]

Hi Jeffrey,

One of my parents' friends was a BA training pilot who used to help with the selection process (for the scholorships, not direct entry as far as I know).

He would heavily penalise people who were acedemic high flyers because they are more likely to get bored with flying and leave for more stimulating jobs - costing the airline a lot in time in money whilst a replacement is trained/hired.

He would also look for concrete evidence that the applicant doesn't mind hanging around not doing very much. This was because the training involved large chunks of sitting around at airfields and, again, people with high class degrees would often leave because they weren't getting enough stimulation.

Sitting for hours at a time on autopilot also tended to wear down those who were academically curious.

So whilst you may need a certain level of qualifications to get an interview (i don't know what the general level is at the moment) they aren't looking for a genious. It's more personality and aptitude that they're looking for, even in today's climate.


Mr S

(edited because I spell like a 3 year old :hmm: )

[icemaiden]

A nice mixture would be GCSE English and A/S level Mathematics (or the other way around). I dont think it is a necessary requirement for a career flying, but on the other hand if you have the available time and inclination it will better your prospects. Considering your age, take them part time - it will give you a spur (especially if one of them is taken at a higher level) and will save you missing an opportunity at a later stage in your life when you might not have the time or inclination to sit with the books... for example when you are finally sitting in the rh seat ... :)

[spitfire747]

Not sure how employers feel, generally for any job they ask for basic qualifications.
If you can pass the ATPLs and with the experience of life, GCSEs should be no hardship.
I did some extra A levels at evening school, 3 hours a week for 30 weeks and passed all
Goodluck
Spitty