Virgin Atlantic order more aircraft

[mk1eyeball]

met a virgin capt tuther day . sais 10 new a/c orders likely in near future. boeing , airbus slugfest for this one.
rumour s that 4 new 744's followed by 340-600's.
are these additional to fleet or replacements for ageing existing ones?
wonder if aussie routes are more of a certainty with these orders being placed in expectation.
good to see virgin doing well under present circumstances.
pilots are happy with new pay settlement too , seems ironic that SIA took a similar gross % paycut.
new sleeper beds for upper class look really good.
with all these a/c looks like there will be some recruitment for f/o's some time.
sounds +ve +ve+ve
good luck all.:ok:

[Aviation Trainer too]

Met a Virgin aircraft cleaner the other day and he told me they will float the company again....



or is it me being sarcastic.... then again this is a rumour network... ;)

[ojs]

This isn't a rumour, it's true. Not really a big secret at all seeing as VS have put out a press release to this effect.

However IMO the far more interesting question is this...

If VS buy Boeing 777's, where does leave their "four for long-haul" campaign? You remember - our planes are safer because they have 4 engines?

Don't want to start *another* ETOPS / 4-engines / 2-engines thread, but while I'm infuriated that the campaign of the summer will be quietly forgotten when it comes down to cash, I can't help but admire his penchant for PR!

[Goforfun]

No- your all wrong, VS are sticking to their 4 Engines 4 Longhaul campaign! :)

http://www.mikephotos.net/dea/photos/vsil62.jpg

[answer=42]

sorry, I'm just an igorant SLF but would I not be wrong in thinking that that photo has been altered in some way?
answer=42

[Torquelink]

Can't believe that even the Bearded Wonder could order twins after all the 4 engines 4 long haul ads. Unless, of course, he's looking to add shorter routes which he could argue aren't long haul. Goforfun - brilliant IL62 pic!

[Goforfun]

Credit goes to Mikephotos (http://www.mikephotos.net/dea/)

Pretty Cool pic though :)

[Pax Vobiscum]

Last time I took a VS flight to Newark, it had only two engines (OK it was a codeshare on a Continental 777).

[akerosid]

I would be extremely surprised if 777s were ordered and I suspect the 777 is merely being brought into the argument to "incentivise" Airbus into giving them a good deal.

I call this "doing an Iberia". Boeing was pretty peeved at being brought into that campaign by IB, mainly to pressure Airbus into a better deal on -600s. That said, having already arranged the lease of three -600s through ILFC, Boeing could hardly have been surprised.

My only question is, could an Airbus order include A340-500s, or would it all be -600s?

[norodnik]

Given that the order book for passenger 747's is very thin and the economincs of the 340-600 are that much better, I would be suprised if Virgin order any 744's at all.

Of course Boeing could make them an offer they can't refuse, or Virgin could just go to the desert and get some very cheap nearly new ones.

Regarding the new upper class. Another huge Virgin mistake which will no doubt cost Virgin as much as the last attempt. Despite what I told them when asked, it has proven to be true that passengers do not like sleeping on the floor.

The new upper class suites mean you will be sitting nearly sideways for the entire journey, looking at the feet of the person in the opposite row, From the way the suites are set up, it appears that you will hardly be able to see out of the window unless you kneel on your seat and peer through the gap. On night flights I am sure they will be fine, on day flights they will be awful.

Back to the drawing board Richard!!!

[bmibaby.com]

Considering that Airbus is trying to offload some Airbus A340-500s, especially since Air Canada has begun re-scheduling and cancelling deliveries, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to pitch the -500 series to Virgin.

Apparently any new type would be replacing and expanding what was the A340-2/300 fleet?

Any chance of Chicago coming back soon?

[crewrest]

Come off it norodnik, people sit sideways in BA's First and backwards in BA's Club. Sitting just a few degrees off forward won't make that much difference.

Have a look at the website. (http://www.upperclasssuite.com)

Good luck in the competition, you could report back to PPRuNe with a passenger's view:)

[Southern Belle]

In response to Norodnik

I have actually seen the new Virgin cabin and it is truly fantastic. Frequent flyers (mainly gold card holders) and cabin crew themselves have had a huge input into the new design and it has been trialled and trialled yet again. The seat is not only the longest in business class but also the widest. The feedback has been hugely positive. As Virgin crew myself I was slightly sceptical as to how good the new suite would be but I have nothing but praise for it and am extremely excited about it. I have seen the website and although it looks good on screen, it looks far far better in the flesh. Why not give it a go before you suggest going back to the drawing board? It really is something very special.

[Anti-ice]

It looks really utilitarian and plastic . YUK.
Preferred the old VS product - this just looks like a cheap re-hash.

BA's FIRST and Club World will knock the spots off it, if the publicity shots are anything to go by.

The new lounges look like some tired old pseudo-70's revamp too.
Not like the cool new BA terraces lounges


Now there's class-BA style (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/164309/L/)

[dickyflys]

Oh dear Southern Belle, falling for the Virgin spin again? I also work for Virgin and agree that the seat is again tacky and also flawed. It's all the same blurb that they gave the first time. That seat was also 'developed' by crew and gold card passengers.

To suggest it will be better than BA First is again an insult. BA First is excellent, have you tried it? I didn't hear RB saying the new Upper Class would be serving Krug Champagne and Caviar nibbles before dinner, as do BA.

Virgin had to do something, to save the airline from the collapse that the first seat caused. Lets hope the new seat at least stops the flow away from Virgin, but let's stop this embarrasing BA bashing. BA is a fantastic airline, and it flies everywhere, that's where they win the business passenger, not in the seat.

Get out more!

[norodnik]

Crewrest

I was once a Gold flyer with Virgin and was invited to the first trial of the (supposed) flat beds.

Some things were evident even then.

1) It was clear that they had already made the decision to install lie on the floor seats

2) The trial was in a cabin mock up and was supposed to "Re-create" conditions similar to flight. However, they served no booze (one trialist was very upset), and it was clear it was just a seat trial.

3) Most of the people on my trial hated the seat. It was narrow, not horizontal, ended up on the floor, and if you are tall (like me) you ended up with your feet jammed under the seat in front.

Anyway, Virgin went ahead because economics dictated that you had the same number of seats as before.

With the new "suites", as I said, the seats maybe more suitable for sleeping, but I really don't want to look at someone's feet for 10 hours on a day flight.

I like looking out of the window, as do many others which you can't really do in the new suites.

In BA First the food and drink is much better and you have space, windows etc.

Tricky Dicky yearns for a product that will rival BA first but will not pay for it. He compromises time and again and you just can't do it on an aircraft. Either offer a First product or stick to competing like for like.

[crewrest]

Norodnik

I agree with your three points about the current seat that you helped trial. In fact I heard the quote once from one of the development team the bed would be flat in-flight because the aircraft flies 10 degrees nose up! Maybe just after T/O it does! Typical Virgin creative office dwellers attitude. No idea about the front line.

As you say, the idea was to fit a bed into the space of an existing seat. That didn't work. I think BA tried that with the similarly ill-fated cradle seat.

I know one of the crew on the trial team, she thought it was unfair there was only one drinks round and that no one listened to the comments on the seat. The decision to go-ahead with that seat, with details already leaked to BA cost the company allot of revenue coupled to the inexperience of the now defunct manufacturer (now propped up by Virgin) and the fingers in ears attitude of the 'Happy-Clappys'

I'll give it a go and see what it's like (you might too, the service is better than BA club, and you get the limo) it had better be better than the current product, yes BA First it isn't, but I think they've at least listened a bit more this time, well if they haven't the self satisfied attitude of Mr Ridgeway (MD) in yesterday's Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,630-770778,00.html) would come down to earth a bit, sadly the company would probably have no Upper revenue at all by then.

Does First have a future anyway with the rapid growth of the 'J' product world-wide?

To be honest I don't know if I'd miss a window or not, half of all premium seats on airlines don't have a window seat anyway. I assume they've looked into that. Suppose it's better than sitting backwards. Personal choice I think. 42 channels of 'on demand movies' (assuming they work) a back rub or manicure and an hour at the bar boring the poor stewardess as well as the work I'm supposed to be doing would help distract me from the neighbour's socks.

Anyway I'm off on holiday in a 757 with 235 seats soon, I'll be staring at my own knees tucked up to my chest on that flight.

Coming back to thread, I think it'll be a fairly even order for 744/346 as both manufacturers are desperate. Both are rather heavy on the gas, but carry loads of Cargo. The sums have to be done. Virgin has no options for Boeings, only Airbus at present.


As for 330/777, both ideal Atlantic machines and would save stacks of fuel, the 4 engines for long-haul seems to be an Airbus innovation, I feel that could be wiped off the publicity as quickly 'fly a younger fleet' would be wiped off if BA called Virgin's bluff and flogged him Concorde (or an IL62)

Cheers

[norodnik]

Crewrest,

I will probably give the seats a go as I have plenty of Amex miles I can use for a trial.

On a couple of points.

I think the lack of a window will be a big issue. Plenty of people want an aisle seat for walk abouts, toilet etc but it is very rare to get on board and see a window seat free.

Virgin don't offer manicures on baord any more as they are not allowed the sharp objects that are used, so only massages etc

Limo is still a very good idea and I wish BA would do it but that would no doubt be impossible for club and cause a large increase in traffic with only one pax per limo..

IMO, food on both airlines has gone down hill big time in the last few years.

I agree that First on BA is probably only going to exist on a few routes in years to come. I love the service in First but the seat is my personal priority and the club flat bed is great if a little narrow.

I will let you know what I think in October if the new configs are out as I have a trip to Disneyland with the kids.

[Kelas]

Saw the new VS upper class seat for the first time a couple of weeks ago and my first impression was "hmmm not sure that is going to work....I'd rather look at the back of another upper class seat than the face of another upper class passenger". Not doubting that the quality of the seat is good and it may be comfortable but RB may want to rethink the layout. Also concerned that it has been less than 3 years that RB unveiled his last upper class seat!

[Taildragger67]

Sitting backwards = no problem. Bit unsettling on first take-off & climb-out but you get a good look out the window (if you're by one). Prob with BA Club is getting over the aisle seat's footrest - so go for 62 or 64A or K! Personally I like the windows so having to crane my neck around & climb over the coaming turns me off.

At the end of the day, it's an aeroplane, not the Ritz, for flock's sake. Certainly not the St Martin's Lane.

Wonder how many times on the average o/night transatlantic the sleeping punters' feet will be run into...

[crewrest]

norodnik

Food wise I think the Upper class lamb shank was pretty good a few months back and I didn't realise the Beauty Therapist had had her tools taken away. She won't be on the Orlando service anyway and I suspect your seat will still be the Virgin fabric on the
Alitalia 'Club' product that the LGW machines were delivered with. Still you'll get to look out the window!

Since you're a traveller then what should the order be for new jets Boeing or Bus? (two engines or four? But we'd better not go there.

[stormcloud]

crewrest,

How do you reckon the 330 would save stacks of fuel over the atlantic?

I flew the 343 at Virgin and now fly the 332 for EK. Fuel burn is similar at 6 to 5.5 per hour and presumably the 333 burn is similar or more (heavier). The 340 is also not tied to ETOPs.

Personally, having lost 1 of 4 a few years ago, I'd rather have the 4 to start with!

Happy landings.

[jethro15]

Doesn't Virgin currently have 8 A340-800 options,. Which are being reviewed agains t the Boeing &67-300???

jethro's
UK and Ireland Airline Fleet Listings
Http://www.jethros.i12.com

[PAXboy]

I find the J2000 seat fine. I do not notice the angle, although I have not been in the BA Club bed to compare with. Also, I am of average build. I would agree that a new seat this quickly looks like an admittance of failure.

The difficulty of looking out the window is, for me, much more serious than that someone's feet might be in my peripheral vision.

Food wise, the VS fare is often too exotic for me. I have plain tastes and before now, have had to look at the menu and request from the 'Y' menu. :mad:

[Shanwick Shanwick]

The Sunday Times reports last weekend:

Virgin Atlantic is in advanced talks with Boeing and Airbus over an order that could be finalised before the end of the year. If a deal were struck this year it could be the largest order placed by a British airline in 2003. Plans by Sir Richard Branson for direct plans for direct flights to Australia face a crucial test next month with the start of aviation talks between Britain and Hong Kong. Virgin needs to be granted traffic rights between Hong Kong and Australia before it can fly the route.