Un-loggable flight time

[WelshFlyer]

Just a quick question to you all; how do you log flight time (not yet licenced pilot:() if there wasen't a QFI on board but I still had some involvement I.E. flew some time under supervision of the pilot.

One of my friends said even tho such time is un-loggable that just to keep a record in my logbook, I could log it as "P.3" time and enter the ammount of time flown in the "Dual or P.2" box.

Is this true? do any of you do this?

WelshFlyer.

[Evo]

Never heard of P3, but you can log the time as SNY - my logbook has a column marked "any other flight" for such things. Never used it myself.

[BEagle]

An aircraft operating crew must hold the appropriate licences (except for military crews in the course of their military duties), except for:

1. Radio operation by glider pilots or pilots under training.
2. U/T pilot flying solo for qualification purposes.
3. U/T pilot flying dual for qualification purposes with a FI.

Hence you may only log the flight time of which you speak as passenger flying. - if at all. I should keep quiet about it, if I were you, as if you've done a lot of this unapproved flying someone in officialdom might wonder what has been going on. For example, if you went flying in a C150 and operated the controls whilst your PPL chum poked a camera out of the side window to photograph people's houses, you could certainly anticipate A Visit....

If the aeroplane was hired to your non-FI friend and he/she allowed you to handle the controls, the aeroplane insurance was probably invalidated.

Lastly, a 'Q'FI is a military flying instructor. Civil instructors are either FIs, (Flight Instructors), or FI(R)s (Flight Instructors with Restricted privileges); however there may still be some 'Assistant Flying Instructors' (AFIs) around.

[englishal]

I believe your pilot mate can hand over control to you if he thinks you competent with no visit from the CAA, though Insurance may be another issue.

Basically you can't log it, unless you are directed to fly by the Queen, then you can fly whatever you [she] like[s], where ever you like without breaking a single rule :D

As an FI mate of mine says, the Logbook is a legal document. Never write anything in there that will incriminate you....[like....nah, better not go there:} ]

Cyer
EA:D

[Flyin'Dutch']

Other than good fun and a bit of practice any of that serves no purpose in your pursuit in a flying career or obtaining a licence.

However apart from being a legal document and at times needed to review what has been happening when applying for ratings etc, I also enjoy reading back old log books and entries for the heck of it. Bit of reminiscing and hankering back to the old days has never hurt anyone.

So for that you may want to 'log' them. Just keep them in a separate logbook.

FD

[WelshFlyer]

Thanks, I'll just write them down in a little hard-back note book then, (Of course i know all the relavent information that i need to record)

Thanks for putting up with more newbie questions!

WelshFlyer.

[AerBabe]

I have been in a fair number of interesting types as a passenger, or RHS over the last couple of years. Including Concorde, Beech Baron and Islander, to name a few... I keep all the details on a spreadsheet, so when I have enough disposable income to buy a second log book, I can put the flights in there. Also, at Stik's suggestion, I have started taking photographs of all the aircraft I fly/fly in. You're never too young to say "When I was young..." :rolleyes:

[bluskis]

I don't see anything wrong with logging pass time, especially if it is something out of the ordinary to you. If your log book has an any other flight column it can be used for that purpose.

What do you log if you are with another PPL and you fly outbound and they fly the return leg?

Or do you assume you stayed where you went?

In such a case I always recorded the non flying leg as pass. It completes the picture, and you are usually doing something even if its just keeping an eye on the flight.

[Whirlybird]

I do this for flying holidays, where two of us usually fly alternate legs. It means I have a more complete picture of where we went, and who flew what. I put in the pilot's name and the airfields, record the actual times, but don't put in anything else. There's nothing to say you can't do it, and I like looking back at it.

[WelshFlyer]

How do you go about logging time as passenger? I presume that I can write time flown as passenger in control of aircraft in the "any other flying" box, but what do I write in the "holders operating capacity" box - I can hardly write "Pax" can I:)

Cheers,

WelshFlyer.

P.S. It's nice to know that I can make records of pax/un-loggable time in control of the aircraft, as I like some referance to the fact that I was in control of said aircraft amongst my other entrys!

[bluskis]

If you are a passenger, holder's capacity is pass, or pax if you like.

The column in my log book says any other flight, not any other flying.

The captain is the guy/ess who is captain.

[WelshFlyer]

yeah my logbook is like somthing out of world war one - some strange things in it's layout, and wording!

Cheers for all the advice. and for tolerating such newbie questions!

anyway, i gotta go to bed, got a date with a C150 tomorrow:)

WelshFlyer.

[BEagle]

Your personal log book is just that - personal. So there's no problem in logging passenger flying if you wish, just don't include it in any 'grand total' of flying hours. Put 'Pax' in the operating capacity if you wish, and the total time either in 'other flying' or better still in the 'Remarks' column.

You only have to produce your personal logbook to prove that you have the minimum necessary hours for licence issue, so as long as your P1 and PU/T columns are clear enough, what extra things you put in your logbok are entirely your concern. Passenger flying, photos or whatever, no restriction. But make a very complicated logbook layout and it'll be a pain to total up the required hours in years to come! However, I wouldn't mention any H-o-P (Hand on pole) time without an FI or licence, if I were you.

Hope your C150 trip wasn't rained off!

[WelshFlyer]

By the time we took off the weather conditions were quite favourable, and I had a great trip!

Cheers,

WelshFlyer.

[FlyingForFun]

How do you go about logging time as passenger? What do I write in the "holders operating capacity" box - I can hardly write "Pax" can IActually, since it's your personal logbook, you can write whatever you want! Just so long as it's clear that you're not including the hours in your total. But, as Evo said way back up at the top of the thread, the "correct" thing to write is "SNY" - short for "Supernumary".

FFF
---------------

[MLS-12D]

Personally, I don't log questionable time ... everything is either PIC, or P2 when I am under instruction (flying with a qualified instructor). But I agree that the bottom line is that it is your logbook and you can essentially put whatever you want in it, as long as there is nothing potentially misleading.

BTW, the phrase "legal document" has no real meaning. Pilot logbook entries would likely meet the criteria for the 'business records' exception to the hearsay rule, which I guess is what englishal's friend is getting at.