Specific Q's for JAA conversion

[Norcal]

Hello all,

First post ever! I have been reading a while and greatly appreciate pprune.

I am a 700tt (600multi) flight instructor in California and have US and UK passports. I am about to begin the faa to jaa conversion and am considering where to do the flight portion after I get the ppl and complete a distance learning course. Options so far include Tayflight and others in the UK, outfits in Spain and possibly somewhere here in the US. I'm calling for prices and information tonight, and am scouring jaa.nl for info, but would appreciate your collective feedback.

My long term goal is to fly international routes for a British airline. I put on about 60 hours a month, but it makes sense to make the move back to Europe as soon as possible. Should I build more time here in the US to improve my odds or am I competetive for turbine jobs with the time I have?

First, is there a 700 hr. minimum requirement for some aspect of commercial flying in Europe? What are the time requirements for different operations? For example in the US you have to have 1200tt to go single pilot IFR part 135.

I have a barage of questions and started to private message but I figured others might want to read answers, so I apologize in advance for the short, controlled bursts of questions. Here goes....

Redsnail - In one post you said that the "appropriate command time" would result in only having to take 2 exams. Is that because of having an ATP or time on a 30 tonne a/c? I heard a rumor about 800 hours making it easier to convert.

Tinstaafl - Did you convert from FAA to JAA? How long did the CPL IR take at Tayflight? How many hours did you fly?

Billie Bob - Who in Long Beach might be close to JAA approval?

LFS and Fogbound - Why fly for an IR conversion when you can convert the CPL and then fly for the IR "as required" i.e. not that much if at all?

Moku - Am I correct in that you converted from FAA tickets? What is an MEPL conversion?

ibzflyer - Who in the UK can do FAA to UK for $7000USD? What is the average rate compared to the most affordable for the UK? Do you have info on how long the conversion takes in Spain?

Jedwards - Any updates from your NAC distance learning? What portion if any needs to be done in the UK?

Anybody - Can you do the CPL and IR training here in the US and just the checkride in the UK? At what point must we have a British medical (I'm assuming I will need to go to the UK at some point during this process for the medical before the CPL IR flight checks)? Is it difficult to schedule (I heard a rumor about only limited locations with limited dates)?

Lastly, and slightly unrelated, any experience on time and cost to convert a UK JAA to the rest of Europe JAA?

I apologize if a question seems misdirected or does not pertain to your experience.

Thanks to all.

Norcal

[Tinstaafl]

Norcal

I converted to a UK ATPL, not JAR. This was during the change over period when both were available or JAR was about to be available. I did the UK thing because I met the experience requirements for a UK ATPL but not a JAR one. What I did is no longer available now that the CAA only issue JAR qualifications.

For info. though: There was no minimum training time required for the UK licence - just whatever the school was happy with. I did under 10 hrs from first flight to the end of the semi-combined GFT & IRT. That's about 6 hrs prep. & 3.5 hrs flight test. It took about 1.5 weeks with no flying on weekends.

I had to do nearly all the UK ATPL exams with morse code the only exclusion. I was also exempt the Radio Telephony exam. There were two courses to attend, 6 weeks & 8 weeks for each exam group (technical & navigation group). I failed two exams in the 1st group (radio & air law and only by 1 question each. What an annoyance... :* ). Those two exam results reflect where my study emphasis was ie on the more difficult topics. I sat them again when I did the next group of exams so no time lost, just an extra two exam fees. No other resits were required.

By way of background, when I did this I already held Oz & USA ATPLs with about 3700hrs TT. I had just left my Oz job as the chief instructor of a CPL/multi/IR/instructor school + doing regular air taxi/charter so I thinks it's fair to say I was reasonably current.

All in all, I think I had an easy run. I started in Jun 99 & had the UK ATPL in November + the UK Performance 'A' done in December. There were a couple of periods of inaction eg a 4 week gap between the end of the 1st exam sitting & the start of the next theory course but otherwise nothing untoward.

Hope your conversion has as little hassle as mine!

[LFS]

Norcal,

Your first big hurdle is to complete the JAA ATPL written exams (there is no need to convert your PPL to a JAA PPL). These can take anywhere from 6 months to two years to complete. You will need to complete a CAA Class 1 medical (at gatwick) before commencing you commercial training here in the UK. You could convert your CPL conversion in the US, I believe there are still one or two JAA approved schools there but you need to complete the IR Test in the UK and so it is in your interest to complete the training over here.

The CPL can be converted on a 'training as required' basis, ie the Chief Flying Instructor / Head of Training of the school you go to should complete and assessment flight with you then make a recommendation. You will also need to pass the Practical Radio Telephony licence for the CPL. By taking the CPL skill test in a Multi Engine aircraft rather than a complex single you will get your multi rating converted as well.

I am a little unsure about your comment regarding IR as required, under JAA you must complete a minimum 15 hour course to convert you IR and as I have said before unless you have significant IFR experience expect the ccourse to take something more like 20 - 30 hours. The minimum requirement under JAA for single pilot IFR Ops. is 700hrs TT.

LFS

[redsnail]

Norcal,
The abridged ATPL that is currently issued by the UK CAA is applicable to pilots with +1500 hours in command of +30 tonne aircraft.
For the UK stuff, read LASORS (http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/fcl/document.asp?groupid=292)

[ibzflyer]

Hi Norcal, in Spain it takes 6 months if you attend to classes to “be ready” for your 14 written test so we can say pretty much that’s the rule in any JAA country, however if you are interested in distance learning forget Spain, regarding the flying portion you might be able to find a cheaper option there, check with Aeromadrid and Airman both located in Madrid, but first of all I do recommend you to enroll in a DL course with whichever school of your preference and then start the research for the flying portion after passing it all ,, Personally after much though I decided to do the DL ATPL with Nac and after that We’ll see, good luck :ok: :ok:

[moku]

yes you are correct I have just completed the ground school and took my last set or writtens last week...... Hope to pass. And plan on actually starting the flight portion as soon as my results arrive.

If you hold a FAA Multi you will need to do a MEPL (Multi Engine) convertion. Basically a check ride (handling test) on a Muliti. What I understand is that most FTO's can do this and
the prices I have been quoted are around 2 hrs flight time and
a £100 fee to issue the paper work.

All the best with the conversion. The ground is nowhere near as bad as I had been led to believe! Call me sadistic but it was actually fun being back in a learning enviroment.

:uhoh:

[Norcal]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the info.

I think I'm going to sign up for nac dl and keep flying hear in California as long as possible to stay current before quitting so that I can sit the tests, do the ir and relocate.

What other minimums are there in Europe? For example, in the US many operators require pilots to have 1000tt for insurance reasons. Is there a similar benchmark in Europe or just the 700tt mark?

For those converting, what is the market like for FAA ticket holders flying N reg jets in Europe? The average minimums must be lower than in the US given the relative lack of supply of eligible pilots, but are the mins below 1000tt?

Once again, thanks to all who contribute to this great resource.

Norcal

[Hulk]

Hi norcal,

I am converting too.the minimum to apply I have seen on different websites are 1500h TT and some 100 or 200h multi. Some ask for 100-500 tubine time. I think if you come back to europe with an ATP and some 200-300 hours on mutiengine and with a JAA license, you will be the next one in the waiting pool.