good luck for the exams!!

[mackey]

Just thought I'd say "The best of british luck" to everyone taking those dreaded exams next week,cos we're going to need it!!

Lets go and kick some CAA butt (might as well get our monies worth)!!!!!!!! :E

M :confused:

[moku]

Cheers mate! Lets hope that the M&B is not as bad as the June paper. :confused:

Hoover time!

[NineEighteen]

What came up in th June paper?? I was fairly confident until reading that!

[Keith.Williams.]

Just remember that if any of the questions appear to be in any way deffective, write a brief but clear appeal on your note paper. Then call up your CGI and get them to appeal it. Successful appeals (usually) score points for everyone who took the paper.

Successful appeals also help to improve the central question bank, so by appealing you are doing your bit for the environment.

[My names Turkish]

So to answer the question, What came up that was so bad?

[Alex Whittingham]

To add to Keith's post:

If you wish to appeal a question that you consider has more than one correct answer, or none, call over the invigilator and explain the problem. They will ask you to write down on scrap paper the essence of your complaint. Make it clear, and do not say anything like '...and so I went for answer (A).' , otherwise it may be rejected as a 'justification of an answer' rather than a kosher appeal. The alternative is to wait till the exam is finished, note down the question as well as you can remember it, and ask your FTO's CGI to appeal it on your behalf. We must submit appeals by cease work on the Monday after the exam, so don't delay.

When the CGIs appeal questions most copy the e-mails to the other schools for information. The CAA reply, then publish a list of the appealed questions and the results of the appeals a week or so after the results are out. We don't get anything detailed back, just something like 'TCAS question, referred back to the JAA, questionable answers'

I don't think June's M&B was unusual. Pass rates were normal.

[My names Turkish]

Keith, Thanks for the reply at last. I have about 5 hours to go before the M&B exam and was sweating when I read the above, hope I pass now!

[Keith.Williams.]

Turkish, the reason I did not answer your question was because I did not think it was aimed at me. I have not heard of any problems with the June M&B exams, in fact we had no students taking it that month.

Anyway, Now that the party is over, how did todays exams go?

[My names Turkish]

Sorry Keith,I was thanking Alex and said your name by accident. I just got the last minute panics, as one does.. The exam was fairly straight forward today. There were the usual 2, 2 mark questions. One was a bit tricky it was question number 14. You had to decide the max traffic load from MZFM, PLLM, PLTOM etc. I struggled with that and I got D as did the rest of my exam mates. If anyone else knows the answer for sure, let us know! The other two marker was taking the data off an aready filled in trim sheet: i.e %MAC and ZFM. I think I got that right and the answer was 17.8% and 41030 or something(Cant remember the exact figures. Other question included mostly definitions all of which could be got from the CAP document. Fairly straight forward. I was lead to believe that I would need to know by memory the standard PAx masses? It appears not. Does anyone know if this is still on the syllabus anymore? Also ddint need my formulae for %Mac or Mass to add or mass to shift. Does anybody else get hacked off learning lformuale and practicing questions and none of them come up?

Anyway HPL and FPl tomorrow. Best of luck to everyone.

[Just_Another_PPL]

What about POF(A)!!!


All those formula's you need to know and there wasnt even 1 question on any of them!!

[Flying Boat]

I recently finished the dreaded writtens, thank you whoever is up there!

JAP
In July PoF only had one equation, but May had wads, methinx it is becoming less problematic (or did I just understand it all better).

I personally hated the exams with so few questions & marks, so little scope for mistakes. M&B, Perf, IFR Comms & VFR Comms (People do fail Comms)

Having to relearn stuff I stopped using 22 years ago was tricky but fun, only the exams were a bit of a problem, but not insurmountable. (quick mental arithmatic test, how old am I?)

My tips to all doing FPl, my succesful exam pass was done by doing all the high mark calculations first, then the Jepp VFR Qs, then the CAP Qs, then the White Jepp chart Qs, finally the other planning Qs. (reason, minimal map folding, especially at Gatwick where the tables are smaller than in a Lancaster).

Regardless of the written instructions, people write all over the question papers, do what you think is most useful to you, but don't forget to transfer the answers to the orange paper.

Good luck to all doing the exams this month, I feel for you, you can all do it.

FB:ok:

[Alex Whittingham]

You didn't have to learn standard masses. The CAA have said they won't get asked in the UK exams until the tables themselves are included in the CAP, they feel its unfair to ask you to memorise something that would ordinarily be in the books. The only related question I can think of asks you when standard masses for baggage can be used.

The JAR specimen paper has a question in it about the standard mass used for children, it also has your trim sheet question in it. The answer was 46130kg and 17.8% so it sounds like you got it right.

[VFE]

Some questions from todays Ops Procedures paper for your perusal:

1) You are informed of a damaged dangerous goods package that is about to be loaded onto the aircraft. As PIC you:

a) Accept the package after inspection
b) Have the package removed
c) ????
d) ????

2) You are above FL410 in MNPS airspace. If you divert you must:

a) Climb 1000ft or decend 1000ft
b) Climb 1000ft or decend 500ft
c) Climb 500ft or decend 1000ft
d) Climb 500ft or decend 500ft

3) At what height must supplimentary oxygen be supplied to a flight deck crew of an unpressurised aircraft?

a) 15'000ft
b) 14'000ft
c) 13'000ft
d) 10'000ft

4) Dynamic hydroplanning is most likely when:

a) The aircraft is at Vlof
b) The depth of water contaminant is half the tyre tread
c) ????
d) ????

5) You are on an approach and you observe a rapid increase in IAS. Windsheer has been reported. What must you do?

a) Accept the increase and allow the aircraft to climb above glideslope monitoring airspeed carefully.
b) Keep the aircraft level until airspeed falls then resume glideslope.
c) ????
d) ????

6) A public address system must be installed on an aircraft with seating:

a) Above 61 seats
b) Above 9 seats
c) ???? seats
d) ???? seats

From Performance:

1) What happens to best rate and best angle of climb if you drop flap?

a) Vx and Vy increase
b) Vx and Vy decrease
c) Vy increases and Vx decreases
d) ....another answer but no answers read "stays constant".

Can't remember anymore at this stage. 'Air Bore' next......... oh what joy.

VFE.

[My names Turkish]

Thanks for that Alex glad to know I wasted all that time! Where can you find out that things like that have been removed from the syllabus? Always seem to be the last to know... By the way, the other 2 Mark question on the M&B exam was the Max traffic load, the answer I got was D 7010Kg, anyone else get that?

[DanielBaxter]

Yep i also got D, 7010kg, it was limited by the MZFM.

Did anyone do the Flight Planning exam?? Thought it was quite a tricky exam paper. Did anyone get 4 hours 6mins as the answer to the Appendix D/Endurance question? It was one of the last questions on the paper.......all comments about it welcome!

Cheers,
Daniel

[USE THE RUDDERS]

Got ans D on M&B as well it was limited by the MZFM.
Thought the exam was fine.

Better than AGK,which only seemed to concentrate on Pressurisation,engines and carbs and electrics.Not much of anything else,but with the usual twist of using confusing langauge.

PoF was Ok better than June's paper but I made some stupid mistakes,there was some strange Q's in there.Will have to wait and see.

[whydididoit]

I took the flight planning exam as well, and I thought it was a bit of a tough papper, but the results will be out soon enough.
I did not get 4hr 6 min for that annex question, but most of the others in my group did, so i would be inclined to beleive that is the answer.
I think that the most interesting question was the first or second question which asked about the distance from a to c on annex a. What answer did you all come up with? I came up with 696 using departure, but a few others came up with 720 by using the NAP from the Jep Handbook

[NineEighteen]

Well I got 4hr 6mins on the Annex D question too and for the A to C distance, I measured it with my compasses with the mean latitude as the scale and came to roughly 720nm so I went for that!

In general though, this exam was very tough and I was lead to believe that it would be considerably easier...:(

[TurboJ]

I thought the M&B exam was straight forward and agree that there were relatively few calculation questions compared to all the papers given out at my FTO.

I also agree that the Flight Planning paper was considerably harder than the practise papers I have looked at. Why all the chart questions cannot be bunched together is strange. I didn't get 4hrs 6mins for the second to last question but having looked through some of the practise papers I never got round to finishing off, the question is replicated and gives the answer as 4hrs 6mins.

I may be wrong but I always thought that the departure formula was only to be used when travelling along a specific latitude; I measured the distance using the scale on the chart, which gave something around 720.

Did anyone sit the General Navigation exam ? A busy 2hrs, but I thought it was fair and representative of my other attempts.

Fingers crossed for ten days time !!!

[whydididoit]

Well, at least our group wasnt the only one to think that the FP exam wasnt as easy as we were lead to beleive.
It looks like the concensus is 4hr6min for the annex4 question.
As for the Annex 1 question, I thought you could use Chlong-520(cos mean lat, which in this case would have been 63.5.) which is how i came up with 696, in my opinion both methods are correct, and both answers should not have been provided. Oh well, on to Air Law and Comms today.

[moku]

M&B....What a total surprise! after the nightmare paper of June this months could not have been better!!!! Very straight forward and mainly one markers!

If I get that and Gen Nav I'm done! :O

[gar_can27]

did anyone else find agk difficult this month, i have a morbid fascination with this subject as i managed to finally pass it in july and finish off the exams, it consumed me for the last 7 months of my life and i think i probably got a straight forward paper last month. im still dreamin agk papers!

[VFE]

It seemed pretty fair this month. Five questions on CSD's stick in mind and hardly anything about oxygen. Two questions on dry powder being used on wheel fires which is great if you knew that.

We'll see how the results go though. That might show a different story.

VFE.

[Send Clowns]

The distance on the "A to C" question is not a departure.

Departure is the distance measured along a parallel, a rhumb line with both ends at the same latitude. A and C are not at the same latitude (unless the feedback supplied to me is mistaken) and the question as I have had it reported does not indicate a rhumb-line or other extended route so a great circle, approximated by a straight line on the chart, should be used. The chart is supplied so the distance can be measured directly, it is as simple as that!

Seems I managed to knock some common sense into you at the very least, TurboJ ;) Your nav knowledge is spot on.

I wish good luck to all, persistence to the unfortunate!

Send Clowns
Flight Planning/Gen Nav Instructor, BCFT

[moku]

turboJ,

I also sat Gen Nav. You are right a very busy 2 hours. Still hard to
say how I did, thought I nailed it in June but ended up a good 9% off the mark. I hope this one turns out better.

[FRIDAY]

I have to say AGK/POF/Planning/Perf all are touch and go for me.
POF, What did you guys get for that question relating to asymmetric flight, I put ans: High Speed, as for the rest of paper its a blur.
AGK was tricky, yep 5Q's on csd and O2 hit hard.
Planning I was caught out for time and didnt ans the last 3questions just ticked anything, There was 1 question I am curious about the Question on the graph 4-5-3-1 I think with the 4 ans = 13000/13200/13400/13600, I went for 13000 anyone else????

[Chuffer Chadley]

Friday

I don't remember the POF question you refer to- I do, however, remember a question on the indications of a turn and slip indicator with one eng failed, wings level (needle and ball neutral), and also one on assymetric blade effect (worst at low speed/high aoa)

That ring any bells?

CC

[NineEighteen]

I'm getting increasingly nervous so results time must be approaching...:rolleyes:

There was 1 question I am curious about the Question on the graph 4-5-3-1 I think with the 4 ans = 13000/13200/13400/13600, I went for 13000 anyone else???? I do indeed remember the question but I don't remember my answer, sorry. Time pressure was my greatest enemy in Flight Planning.

[Wick Static]

Just thought I would let you all know that I spoke to the caa yeaterday and they informed me that it will probably be Tuesday when the exam results from the August sitting will be out. However, I was told 'don't quote me on that' so you never know.

How did people find General Navigation this time? I thought it was a reasonable paper, just a lot to do in the two hours as some of you have already mentioned. Did anyone find any really difficult questions? Thoughts would be appreciated.

[TurboJ]

Given that I have sat General Nav a few times before, I thought the August paper was very representative of previous attempts. All the usual chart questions, plotting, symbols, rate of descent, INS/IRS and CRP5 questions were there.

As I said previously it was a very busy two hours and barely had five minutes to spare at the end.

I do hope you are right in saying the results will be out around Tuesday as the suspense is killing more than usual....

Fingers crossed ..................

[My names Turkish]

Thats intresting Wick Static. They must have gotten delayed, we were told probably Mon, and sometimes theres a longer delay because of the time difference for us here in the States.

[Wick Static]

Well no post this morning here in the uk, we await tomorrow...........

Fingers crossed guys, good luck for when they do come!

[My names Turkish]

When I did my Leaving Certificate(I think you call them A Levels), the government department gave us all a pin number and their Web Address. On results day you put in your Pin and up popped your results. It had the benefit of displaying the results before you got them in the post. Also, before the exams you could change your subjects and there levels, Higher or Ordinary levels. If the Irish Department of education can manage it, its not beyond the CAA....

[Wick Static]

Turkish,

That's a great system, however that would be far beyond our CAA at the belgrano in Gatwick. It would be too straightforward and helpful for a start!

[crispy banana]

Those within the UK normally get their results the day they are posted or the next day.

But god forbid if you live outside the UK. I had mine posted to me in the US and the first time they took almost 3 weeks to get to me :hmm: from the day they were sent out. (Even to get to Ireland takes as long....as my friend found out...)

For Mod 2,I was told that you can get them faxed to your groundschool provider,who you can then call/email.

I did this for Mod 2 (a big thanks to Bristol GS :ok: )

Its saves alot of worrying and sleepless nights :}

Btw,I forgotton all I learnt the following week,but thats a whole different subject :E

[My names Turkish]

CB, Yep we got them faxed too but apparently they wait until they have been released in Magenta land first. The suspense is killing me this time! I will also back up your friend. For reasons I will never understand letters sent to me here in the states get here quicker than they do to the U.K and also coming the other way. I suspect the crowd on our side, they only switched from manual handling of the mail this year!

[TRon]

Living in a backward town where the local post office take siestas I always got my exam results the day after everyone else despite being 60 miles closer to Gatwick than all my compatriates.

The helpful chaps at the CAA always faxed through my results to my home fax number if you call them up and ask nicely on the day result were issued.

It's worse watching them slowly come out of the fax machine line by line!!...

I think I'll be quaking it more when the elusive interview result comes through when posty can be a*sed!, but I think that is a few years away!!!

[My names Turkish]

Finally got them, the waiting had me on the point of loosing my mind! Got 5 out of 7 which I am fairly happy with. The FPL was an awful exam so I'll just have to have another go at it. I am alomost ashamed to say that I got 100% in M+B, how nerdy is that? And to all those that said it couldnt be done, a pass in Airlaw! Cant wait until it gets dark so I can dance around a burning Air Law book:E

And good luck to everyone else. I had a crap Mod 1 getting only Comms, if the results arent great dont worry just have another go.