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red7alpha
1st Aug 2003, 06:43
Hello all. I'm in need of some advice regarding my situation. I'm British, and hold a JAA CPL. I started my IR at SFT when they went bust, and lost a lot of money. I want to get an IR and Instructor rating, but I'm not sure if I can afford to train for them in the UK on top of the debts I already have (I've paid for the IR once already!).

I'm now considering going to the US to train for the IR, CFI, CFII, MEI, and also renew my ME and Night rating. All this is cheaper than the IR and FI(R) in the UK. I've seen a few flying schools that employ some of their international students after their training as flying instructors, whilst they stay in the US on a student visa. This is an option for me, as I've no real attachment to this country at the moment, so could leave for a year or so. I have quite a few questions. The things I need to work out are-

1) Can I convert my JAA CPL to FAA? What's involved? Where am I looking on the FAA website? I got lost trying to find it.
2) Is the student visa hard to get hold of?
3) Assuming I was to convert my JAA CPL to FAA (if possible, see No. 1), and was issued a student visa, am I allowed to get a job as a flying instructor and get paid after I complete my training? I think I've read that you can, correct me if I'm wrong.
4) I see the student visa is valid for one year, and can be extended up to 5 years. What are the rules on extension? The INS website doesn't load at the moment.
5) What's the instructor situation in the US? What is the likelihood of me finding work out there, and more importantly, picking up instrument and multi-engine instructional work?

There are other things I would have to consider though. On my return to the UK, I would have to do the ATPL exams again, (it will have been more than 3 years from ATPL exams passed with no IR pass). I would have to train for the JAA IR and (maybe) the instructor rating anyway when back in the UK. So it would cost more overall, not too much of a problem if I managed to find a year or two's work as a flying instructor including some instrument and ME time.

7) Lastly, is anyone aware of any flying school in the US that do JAA IR and Instructor ratings? I've had a good look, but have yet to find any.
8) If there are any schools, would the UK market look down on me as I trained in the US?

Any advice, or if you just want to throw in your two cents, I would be most grateful. Sorry about so many questions, but I really need a bit of help at the moment. If you would prefer, please feel free to PM or email me.

Many thanks,

R7A

[email protected]

Long Beach CFII
9th Aug 2003, 17:51
Lots of questions... I'll do my best to answer them for you based on my personal experiences as a UK citizen in the US...

1. You can convert your JAA commercial pilot's licence to an FAA licence by obtaining a letter of verification from the CAA, sending it the FSDO - Flight Standards District Office - that will be close to the airport that you will be flying from. If you are unsure as to where you will be flying from, then send it to the New York one, as they send Inspectors on tours around Europe every so often.

2. There are many different types of Student Visas, and they are becoming harder to get hold of, but not impossible...as an example, I'm from the UK and came over to CA, and my flight school organized an M1 Visa for me...this visa allowed me to stay in the US and leave as I wished, for 1 year, and could be extended every year for 5 years. Work authorization for this type of visa is very restrictive, and from recollection only allowed you to work 'on campus'.

3. I'm not sure on whether you are allowed to get paid, however you can become an 'intern' at the flight academy, which will effectively reduce your tuition payments...I'm aware of one flight school locally that offers an internship, on an M1 visa.
There are other Visa's that can be obtained that may allow you to work in the US, I'm not the best source though

4. The M1 visa as I said can be extended, when I was going through the hoops to have that extended the INS, they have changed their name now, wanted proof that I could support myself from funds that I already had, and also wanted to be reassured that I wasn't working...Alternatively, they asked for tax returns, from a sponsor, or an 'affidavit of support' from a relative (i had neither) The extension period took approxiamately 340 days, before they replied with an answer...in my case it was no, as I had no money.

5. There are always opportunities to pick up students. Mostly though, primary students are easily attracted, and you will have to do your best at talking them into multi, and instrument lessons...sell the idea to them. Most of my student have been career guys, and I found a niche for instrument training, as I live in Long Beach, and we have an early morning fog situation here, that justifies an instrument rating.
You may find yourself at the back of a very long line of instructors, patiently waiting for their opportunity to teach multi...Schools know that multi time is like goldust and typically only give multi students to their long time weary instructors that have lost all desire to advance their careers. Be careful who you select to do your training with, if multi is your desire, make sure the school has plenty of twin trainers, that are in good condition, and well maintained.

6. I knew a guy who did all his ratings FAA, and went back with an FAA ATP (1500 TT, 500 cross country >50 miles etc..) and spent about 10000 sterling on conversions, apparently at the time since he was already an ATP there were fewer flights, groundschool or exams to do etc.

7. JAA regulations prohibit any IR training to be conducted outside of JAA airspace, so there are no JAA IR schools in the US, however, you can complete training in the US, and return for the skills test, as I understand it.

8. I think not...most UK 'high-time' pilots, have between 300-700 hours, and credit to them have spent a lot more money on their flying than the US pilots, with 1500 hrs+. As an example, take myself; I finished my CFI certified flight instructor (private and commercial training only) in 12/2001, and then my CFII (instrument rating training authorized) in 4/2002. In just over 1 year and 4 months I have logged over 1500 hours, of total time, 300 hours night, 75 hours of actual instrument time, 40 hours of multi, etc... so if the UK look down on this, I'd have to say it's probably a few snobs opinions.
My humble opinion is that an hour in the air over England, is just as valuable as an hour over Los Angeles.

Good luck with your search and decisions...

Peter

red7alpha
11th Aug 2003, 08:05
Thanks for your input, Long Beach. There's some real good info here, and you've answered a lot of my questions :)

Many thanks,

R7A

dorosenco
12th Aug 2003, 08:00
Red7alpha,

Only few comments :

1. No, you cannot have your JAA CPL converted to an FAA CPL directly. You will only have a FAA PPL. You will need to take the FAA CPL written examination (piece-of-cake) and do a flight test for the CPL VFR only. For the IR is the same deal: written exam+flight test. MEP is only a flight test, no written exam.
2. Very few schools are really hiring right now, getting an M1 Visa is giving the flight school the opportunity to exploit you since they are not really going to pay you anything since your are on a M1 Visa.
3. You can do your IR flight training in the US but you have to do the flight test in the UK.
4. Yes, you can do your JAA FI(R) in the US. There are few schools in Florida that have FI Examiners on staff.

Go to my website : www.passion2fly.com or send me a personal e-mail if you need more infos...
;)

FlyingForFun
12th Aug 2003, 15:16
Long Beach CFII,JAA regulations prohibit any IR training to be conducted outside of JAA airspace, so there are no JAA IR schools in the USI'm sure this is not true. I can think of a couple of schools which I'm 99% certain offer JAA IR training in the US. However, the Skills Test for the UK JAR IR must be conducted by a CAA examiner, and all of the examiners work in the UK. I'm sure you knew that, though, because your next sentence:You can complete training in the US, and return for the skills test, as I understand itimplies just that!

FFF
--------------

Hulk
12th Aug 2003, 23:14
concerning FAA IR, you will need at least 40 hours on a multiengine to convert your JAA IR. it's harder to fly in the US than in the UK, more traffic, more procedures, ILS back track, ndb, circle to land, arc DME, lot of radio work, plenty of SID/STAR,NDB hold, ...big airports (LAS,STL,JFK,...)
it is why the FAA ask you to pass the IR written and check ride.

you will take a bath in the real aviation world!!

dorosenco
13th Aug 2003, 08:29
Hulk,

There is no hour requirement for JAA IR conversion to FAA, you only have to take the FAA written test. The only thing is that your FAA IR will be valid for as long as your JAA IR is valid. That means re-validation of your JAA/FAA IR every 12 months !!! That sucks !
Check my website www.passion2fly.com for additional information on "FAA Conversions" page.

;)

Hulk
14th Aug 2003, 00:41
I know there is no legal minimum requirement for a FAA conversion . But for a full commercial FAA license, you have to pass the check ride with an examiner .The 40-50 hours I was suggesting is specially for JAA pilots coming for the first time in the States.We know all that a JAA pilot lands always with a phone call from the tower or the controller asking them to file asap a NASA safety report form. see what I mean???:p

minus273
14th Aug 2003, 05:48
Well just to be boring, there is a minumium hour requirement for the conversion in the sense that you must have done a minimum of 3hrs in the previous 60days with a CFII.

Also for the JAA people going to the US, I would strongly recommend getting up to speed on partial panel work as one of the approaches will be conducted that way.

Also an Oral exam will have to be completed before you go flying.

:sad:

dorosenco
14th Aug 2003, 13:33
minus273,

you're boring ... ;)
ok guys, if you need to know every single detail on JAA IR conversion to FAA, i just updated my web site with information on that issue. check www.passion2fly.com in "Flight Training" link to "FAA Instrument Rating" ... I hope it is not too boring ... :O

minus273
15th Aug 2003, 04:54
Well I may be boring but ....

Your page seems to be missing some facts with regard to the conversion.

1. A good idea is to make sure that you have been issued with the paper conversion from the FAA so that you are able to get Unrestricted FAA ratings added to it.

2. If you wish to have and unrestricted FAA instrument rating you must take the flight test and written exams. Rather than just the foreign pilots written exam for instrument rating. Which is fine for holiday flying but not for anything else.

3. If you do go this "Full" route you must have done a minimum of 3 hrs in last 60 days with a CFII and have a correctly filled in 8710 form. The unrestricted Single engine instrument rating will only be vaild on a single and if you do it in the Multi it will only be valid in a Multi.

Maybe missing some stuff but sure the nice gentlemen that concurred that I am boring can help you.

I am posting this from my experience of converting my licence and working as a CFII for 2 years.

Well hope that helps a wee bit



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