My Blood is boiling - The CAA (licencing)

[Flock1]

This has probaby been done to death....

On the 29th May, I passed my PPL.

Back at the flying school, I filled out all of the necessery forms, and with the examiners help, we put everything into an envelope and off it went on its merry little way.

About four weeks later, I received a parcel from the CAA. I opened it with glee, and watched with dismay as lots of items dropped out.

My log book, Medical certificate, two letters but alas, no licence.
I read the first letter, which informed me that my aplication had been successful, apart from one trifling matter. My passport. The CAA Lords decided that the photocopy of my passport was not good enough. They wanted the real thing.

THe other piece of paper told me to go through my logbook and to go over all the pencil entries that I'd made. (I'd forgotten to change them before I sent it off.)

So feeling very let down, I sent off my passport, hoping that everything would now go according to plan.

I waited and waited, and about ten days later another parcel arrived from the CAA. I opened it with glee, and out dropped my passport - and nothing else. No letter, nothing.

Confused, i waited a few more days, and then a letter arrived from the CAA. It contained a receipt of payment for my application.

In the meantime, I had been flying the club aircraft, but having to be signed off by one of the instructors each time I flew (Like being a student). This wasn't so bad, but I couldn't take any passengers. However, I reasoned that my licence would be arriving imminently, so I arranged with a fellow PPL (who had just recently passed, and was awaiting his own licence) to fly a longer trip together. I booked the aircraft a month in advance, and we looked forward to our sortie.

The day of this flight is this Friday. And my licence still hasn't arrived. When it was not delivered today, I decided to ring the CAA.

I rang them at 11 am, and after waiting for nearly 20 minutes, I was told (via a recorded message) that I should ring during office hours! Can you believe that?

So I bit the bullet and went through the whole process again, and was eventually put through to some poor security guard!

'Oh another one,' he said. 'I wonder why this is happening? Hang on mate, I'll put you through.'

And so I was plunged into the God forsaken system for a third time. My blood was boiling and I felt steam building up.

However, this time a lady answered the phone. I explained my predicament, and she told me that my application was in the 'loading' section (whatever or wherever that is) and ithat it was just a matter of waiting.

'How long?' I asked.

'Oh, I wouldn't like to say really. Probably within a month.'

'A month! A month! Is there any way to speed up the process?' I asked in desperation.

'No, sorry.'

She explained that the 'loading' department were only up to applications from the 2nd July. And because of my passport debacle, my application hadn't been sent to the 'loading' department until the 17th. My licence was at the bottom of a huge pile, going nowhere fast.

So it seems that my flight will have to be cancelled on Friday. And I am not happy at all.

So my question is this. Is what I have gone through a normal experience. Because if it is, then surely there is a better way. If 'That's Life' was still on TV, I'd write to them!

[dublinpilot]

Well the Irish Aviation Authority gets a lot of bashing (not here).

However I have to say when I passed my skills test, I drove to their office the next morning and left in my paperwork, explained that I wanted the licence asap, and collected it from them that afternoon!

Well done guys in the IAA

:ok:

dp

[Andrew Sinclair]

Flock1 mentioned that....
.....I read the first letter, which informed me that my aplication had been successful.....
That got me thinking......I know the ANO is quite specific insofar as validity of the licence granted under Article 22 shall not be valid unless it bears thereon the ordinary signature of the holder in ink.

This means that the full process of issue has to be completed before the holder can exercise his priviledges even though it looks on the face of it that the application has been accepted. I wonder why that specific requirement was included in the statutory instrument.

A licence for a motor vehicle seems to be a different kettle of fish. Doesn't help stem the frustration Flock1 sorry about that, but an interesting point to note.

I think someone could write a book on the adventures of getting a PPL, I am sure it would be a good read for any new folk considering whether to learn to fly!

[Kolibear]

Did you remember to photocopy your log-book before senting it off?? These things are irreplaceable, unlike your passport.

[jackyboy]

I know the frustration as I had the same problem. It seems that the CAA changed the rule on photocopys of passports without telling anyone, and it now HAS to be endorsed by your flying club before they process your licence. Also you go to the back of the list when they receive the corrected photocopy. ( A wait of a further 16 WORKING days)

Anyone sending in for their licence beware of the above.

I also rang them but found them very helpful and got my licence exactly 16 working days after they had received the corrected paperwork. Apparently, you can also go to Gatwick and collect it. I know of one chap at our club who did just that after getting fed up waiting.

Not that it helps, but, in the end it's is worth the wait.

[parris50]

PPL - took about 3 weeks but was delayed because I didn't get my log book countersigned by the flying school

CPL took about 2 weeks and no problems. IR about 5 days - I was impressed.

I think they aim to have licences processed within 10 days now. But if there is the slightest thing wrong with your application, this can delay things a lot.

Totally sympathise with your experiences with the CAA telephone system. It always takes ages. Perhaps the CAA gets part of the call cost :mad:

[Penguina]

Parris50 - do you mean you can show up and ask them to issue it 'while you wait', even if you're still waiting for your envelope to be opened? They refused to do that for me when I happened to be in Gatwick anyway.

[Flock1]

Andrew Sinclair,

I like the sound of someone writing a book. I reckon it would help a lot of students.

Flock1

[flower]

Andy,
I was under the impression that someone was ;)

I wonder if the issue of PPLs is like passports quicker in the winter months ???

[drauk]

I'd blame your flying school/examiner. They should have told you that a photocopy of your proof of identity should be authorised by them (it does say this on the application form) and that your log book entries should be in pen not pencil. In fact, they should have checked your application before it was sent and spotted these potential problems.

For what it's worth my application took about 6 weeks. I kept calling and eventually a woman said that it was still in a huge pile and she couldn't understand why mine hadn't been done yet. She promised to process it herself, personally, and send it the next day, which she did, so I guess it can be done.

[Penguina]

Yesss! I now have a direct line! Result...

Best to be very charming indeed - I know - I have a similar job myself...

[Deano777]

I sent my application off just over 2 weeks ago and I am slightly concerned as posts on here have said that the CAA take the money first then issue the liscence sometime later, but the CAA havent taken any money from me yet :(
Do you think this is normal or should they have taken the money? I sent the package recorded delivery and included my birth certificate and not my passport as the form said either or would suffice :)

Dean.

[Penguina]

Birth certificate's fine I think.

I believe they put things in order of how received, then it takes 3 weeks to open them, then they check all is correct, then they charge you, then they do this loading thing and (I'm told) a week from 'loading' you get the licence.

I might phone my mate tomorrow to check how thigns are going - anyone want any questions answered? :)

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I sent my application off just over 2 weeks ago and I am slightly concerned as posts on here have said that the CAA take the money first then issue the liscence sometime later, but the CAA havent taken any money from me yet In my case the receipt for the money was followed by the licence a couple of days later. Others have posted here recently saying the same.

[flower]

It seems daft that the examiner is unable to issue you with the licence after you have passed the exam. Surely a system where prior to the Skills test all paperwork is correct and up to date and presented to the examiner on the day to show all has been done, and a payment made as part of the skills test would be a more efficient way of doing this, thus allowing the Licence holder to exercise the privilege of their licence straight away.

The examiner attends the skills test with all the appropriate paperwork done and subject to the individual passing ,the licence would be handed over.

Sound a pipe dream , well thats what happens with us , simple efficient and it is the CAA who issues us with our licences to.

[rotorboater]

After 6 weeks, I made the mistake of phoning them from my mobile, 25 minutes on hold!:*
Anyway, I eventualy got through to someone, and I was probibly a bit Greensleved up by then and was maybe not super polite and subservient, the lady found my application, said there was nothing wrong with it and it should be out in the next day or so.

So there you go just ask and it will be delivered in a further 6 weeks time!

IMHO if you hassle them, you just go down to the bottom again!:{

[flower]

I would suspect Andy that its down maybe to the Civil service attitude that pervades many organizations where change is perceived as bad and not good.

Radical overhauls of processes are long overdue, all I hear time and time again from Pilots be they PPL or ATPL is that there licence has yet to be issued, in the case of ATPLs this actually prevents them from earning a living which is simply unacceptable

In the interim why are they not taking on temporary staff to clear the backlog, they should be able to issue a licence within 24 hrs of receiving all the paperwork I'm sure.

As an aside but also partly in connection with this, I lost my Class 1 medical 4 years ago, when my doctor advised I was fit to return to work I had to seen AME at Gatwick I rang and they advised me I would have a priority appointment, for an appointment to be given 2 months later, after the appointment in which the AME advised I was fit to return to work it took a further 2 1/2 months before i got the paperwork back from the CAA allowing me to return to work. During this period I was unable to draw full pay but I have no recourse to the CAA

(edited asI remembered I had even more to rant about)

[Flock1]

Penguina,

I have only one question for you to ask the CAA. And it is to be directed at the slow coach with the knackered old typewriter, who resides in the CAA loading dept, printing off one licence every few days. Here is my polite question:

When will I get my F*****G licence!?!

How many licences do they have to process at any one time anyway, because there cannot be that many can there? Or is my description above accurate do you suppose. One man (elderly probably) working in the 'loading' office for an hour each day, before going to the 'finance' office, to cash a few cheques, before going to the security office, to protect the building from the hordes of angry and confused pilots awaiting their licences.

And you may all laugh at me here - but as I have never ever seen a pilots licence, I'm hoping that when it does (if it does) arrive, that it looks impressive . I'm expecting gold embroidered edging, with embossed writing on the glittery front cover. I'm also expecting it to be impressive enough to amaze all my mates. I will accept nothing less for 145 pounds and a two month wait. The CAA printer must be top of the range...

[WestWind1950]

"nice" to hear of your problems.... I thought only we had them ;)

Before JAR-FCL, only five minutes was needed to process a licence here in Germany... the pilot came in, and while he went down to pay at the cashier, his licence was processed and he could take it with him. Since May 1, with introduction of JAR-FCL (at the beginning of the flying season!!) at least 30 min. to 2 hours is needed for processing, the new software keeps crashing, there is not enough personel and the ones doing the work end up calling in sick (stress symptoms), no one understands completely the new regs... frustration abound and there is now a back log at the authroity for my area of 5-6 weeks!! The pilots are "starting" to get quite angry!!


http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/aktion/action-smiley-072.gif Westy

P.S. over here you send the copy of your birth cerificate at the beginning of training and not at the end and the logbooks are checked by the school or instructors, a paper is signed to proove the correctness of it, but the book itself is not sent in!

[Kolibear]

Oh Flock1, are you in for a disappointment! :( :(

A 'nice shade of tan' was the best description I've seen of it.
'S**t brown' was the least complementary.

Don't be too disappointed by what it looks like, remember its a lot harder to keep it than it was to get it in the first place.

[Saab Dastard]

Flock1 - I sympathise with your frustration.

FWIW, I brought my completed application to the CAA front desk and had them check that all the bits were present and correct there and then. They photocopied birth cert and passport and whatever else they wanted and gave me the originals back, just keeping the logbook and application form.

At least I was fairly confident that the application wouldn't get stalled - it still took 6 weeks tho' despite a couple of calls. There was about a week between payment on my visa card and getting the licence.

SD

[HelenD]

I recieved my passport back ok then I got a letter stating the money had been paid. A few days later and about 4 weeks after I sent everything off I got my licence and log book back but my medical certificate was nowhere to be found. Knowing that my licence wasnt valid without it I rang the CAA. Licencing claimed that it should have been there as they only send back complete licences so I phoned medical where I was told that my medical was in the process of being reissued as the restriction had now moved to my licence. Within 2 days of the phone call to medical my medical certificate arrived back.

[Evo]

It should be here soon, Flock - mine turned up a couple of days after the invoice (which arrived three weeks after they charged my credit card!) and that seems to be normal. But...


And you may all laugh at me here - but as I have never ever seen a pilots licence, I'm hoping that when it does (if it does) arrive, that it looks impressive


Oh boy... it looks :mad:ing horrible. Anybody with a small baby is very familiar with the colour :ugh: :yuk: and you would have to try quite hard to make it look any worse :{

[TANGOWHISKEYINDIA]

I feel sorry for u britts :(
In sweden we send in a birth certificate, police records, and medical exam papers to the swedish CAA to get a "Student Lincense" and Medical before beginning education.

When we do the final examiner checkride, he/she looks att the logbook, checks your photo-ID, your school records and talks to the CFI of the school, then, if you pass, he fills in a real PPL(A) license application which he sends in. And then the GOOD part, he/she issues a temporary license on the spot, which you can fly on for a limited time until the real license arrives, is that GREAT or what!!! And this under JAR-FCL.

[Kirstey]

Just to go against the grain a little and back up the CAA! The "Liscence Loading" man only works one or two days a week! (There aren't that many aviators requiring bits and pieces to make it a full time job).

And just to gloat I got mine in 2 days - friends and family working for the CAA is pretty handy occasionally!

[Tiger_ Moth]

GRRRRRRRRRR! This makes me really angry to think the CAA can charge you £160 or whatever it is to go through all this bureaucratic crap and take as long as they want about it. Should be left to CFIs who then inform the CAA whenever they issue a license.

[flower]

Kirstey,
not having a go at you but I have to say i find it appalling that your licence should be fast tracked because of contacts in the office. Those people waiting for weeks and the ATPLs unable to work should be complaining bitterly if that is the case.

It is blatantly obvious with the delays that there is a greater need than a couple of days work a week in the office issuing these. :mad:

[tyro]

Andrew, Flower,

I can't think of a reason why a paper licence is needed at all. An online inquiry to the CAA would be a much cheaper and more reliable method of establishing a person's flying credentials.

After all the actual pilot's licence is an intangible permission to fly granted by state. I can imagine that, in the pre-computer age, a special piece of paper complete with signatures and rubber stamps, must have been a great way of showing that this licence existed. But these days a printed paper record of anything at all looks like a weak form of evidence. Anybody who wants to know whether I am licensed should be able to do so by asking the CAA directly, e.g. via their website. (The sort of people who would want to know are almost certainly in possession of a computer. )

Maybe I should write to the ICAO and JAA to point this out.

[knobbygb]

Ssssshhh... don't tell the CAA, but when I applied for my FAA reciprocal, I sent my credit card details to the CAA so they could take the required £15, and they never took it! So is IS possible to be a winner!

As for the PPL - Inside the s**t-brown plastic cover, the license is simply 4 or 5 sheets of laser printed A4. Now, anybody with a PC and a copy of MS Word could..... Well, obviously I'm not condoning this, but it does rather support the points made above about the lack of need for a piece of paper at all.

[Kirstey]

Flower,

Agree with you entirely! However, I have limited morals!

The Americans have the right idea, issue a temporay airmans cert. Then it doesn't matter how long it all takes! The examiner knows you're safe to fly and act as PIC. The beaurocracy can be done later at the CAAs own time.

[Northern Highflyer]

There has to be a better way..............and a better colour for the licence :yuk:

In fairness mine was through in about 3 weeks, with all items returned successfully. I contacted them once and got through quite quickly and found them helpful. Now I am sounding pro CAA but I am sure the luck will run out sooner or later.

There is certainly enough work to make the job full time though. One week should be more than enough to get the licence back.

Just a point to debate. Many people when they saw my licence were very surprised that there wasn't a photo requirement on it like with the driving licence. No security marks or holograms, nothing. Post 9/11 you would think they would make these things more secure.

[Julian]

Kirstey,

Last time I was issued with a TAC it was only valid for a finite time (90 days I think but long since binned it), we would obviously hope that 3 months would be more than enough time for them to issue your licence though.....errr ok.....:rolleyes:

The TAC is simply a single sheet piece of paper filled in by the examiner on sucessful completion of your test, the pucker licence is a errrr....slightly smaller single sheet piece of cardboard. At least now I know why the UK licences as so much more expensive....all that plastic with pockets in them and extra bits of paper....very costly...:}

Julian

[RomeoTangoFoxtrotMike]

A 'nice shade of tan' was the best description I've seen of it.
'S**t brown' was the least complementary.
:(

PPL(B)s would appear to be more tasteful ;)

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~geoff/ppl.jpg

[ Edited to add: that's not mine, unfortunately :{ ]

[Penguina]

Well, bully for balloonists! :p I don't know, purple licences, right of way everywhere you go, you are the authorities' little pets, aren't you? :)

[Flock1]

So why do they take so long to print (or be loaded) if they're such a basic thing. In fact, it reminds me of my old student union card - and I got that in five minutes!

[RomeoTangoFoxtrotMike]

I don't know, purple licences, right of way everywhere you
go, you are the authorities' little pets, aren't you?

I didn't say that ! :cool:

[Penguina]

RTFM

Didn't have to, Golden Boy, the smugness said it all! :hmm: :D

[flower]

My licence is a ghastly shade of yellow, still with no photo ID either just the list of my ratings which are validated and my Class 1 medical

[Penguina]

I see, I think we're getting the hang of what the CAA think of us - pilots are poo brown so ATC are an aptly complementary yellow colour... :rolleyes:

[WestWind1950]

The German version is an ivory white for all certificates! It's long and skinny and can be folded to the size of a credit card. We used to have different stripes for the different kinds, but not any more. Having no photo is really dumb, especially after 9/11, but then the American one never had a photo!

@tyro
no way will ceritficates ever be only online! First of all, some pilots fly to faraway places where internet actually doesn't exist! And on the air field, I sure don't carry my computer around with me! And think of data-security!! I wouldn't want any and every idiot checking into my personal data!!! It's bad enough that the authorities can! :E

The idea of a temporary certificate is good.

I thought the whole JAR-FCL stuff was supposed to make everything the same!! why is it done everywhere different then? :confused:

http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/aktion/action-smiley-072.gif Westy

[redsnail]

I can't remember exactly the Oz system but I am pretty sure once you've passed the flight test and the paper work is ok then you can go and fly. I can't remember how long CASA took to get it all sorted but it isn't as long (or as expensive) as the CAA.
The ATPL is a rather boring green colour. Same colour as the Australian licence. The Aussie lic folder is the same one for all classes of licence and is cloth/plastic covered.

6 weeks appears to be the go with the CAA at the moment. Checkboard passed his LST on the 737 for his ATPL and went round to the CAA immediately afterwards. That was 3 weeks ago. He rang them yesterday, they are "snowed under" and will take another 15 working days to get it sorted.

Incredible.

Oh, Trudy's pretty good at Gatwick (CAA). She's pretty helpful. I bet they've moved her on.

[tyro]

Westy,

I too hate the idea of personal data being publicly available. All that would be required would be the minimum to associate your means of identification with the record of your flying licence. For example by typing in a pilot's name, address and licence number would cause the CAA's machine to reveal pertinent details about your licence.

"some pilots fly to faraway places where internet actually doesn't exist!"

True, I guess there are a few settlements providing aviation facilities to strangers which are beyond economic reach of the public telephone network. But once there, it's probably a bit late to start worrying about whether a pilot is licensed or not.

In any event, how often would a Patagonian flight-ops actually know whether the piece of paper I held under his nose was a genuine JAR-FCL licence, or something I printed myself? Without the benefit of internet access to Pprune, I doubt he would even know what colour the cover should be.

[knobbygb]

The FAA has an online airman database here (http://162.58.35.241/aadatabase/login.asp)
It will display name, address and ratings held. They must think there is value in an online system and that it is suitably secure (they are very keen on the protection of privacy of personal information over there).
The database won't display the license number - I assume this is to stop forgeries (although my record (reciprocal) DOES display my CAA license number!), and any pilot can opt out of having personal information displayed if they want to. Interestingley, basic changes, such as change of address, or opting out, can even be done on line :ok:

I guess some people use it and find it of value, but would anyone really use a CAA equivelent? Since nobody has ever asked to see my paper license or medical, I somehow doubt it.

[Bear 555]

Sorry Tyro, but big brother and all his friends are watching. Anyone who thinks their personal information is not available on the 'net, or to any half-way competent investigator is kidding themselves.

Biggest selling domsetic electrical appliance in the states now is a cross-cut shredder... Identity fraud and identity theft is big business - 380,000 cases last year.

Bear 555

[foghorn]

Has the FCL public counter at Aviation House closed? A few years ago I got my CPL and IR issued there, it took a couple of hours for the former and an hour for the latter, and they give you a time to come back to counter so you can have a coffee and time your return.

Worth a thought if you live close by and have the time.

As for the CAA, it seems to me that it is stuffed with jobsworths on a make-work campaign. That old public service attitude again: "Can't Do". I'm having similar problems getting my NHS GP to release my medical records to an insurance company at the moment - three weeks in, despite multiple phone calls, they've finally realised that they've lost the paperwork and I'm back at square one....

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Spikeee]

wow, it seems like a lot of people are currently sending off for their licence.

At the time i was taking my test there were a lot of people also doing theirs.

It must just be a bad time of year. I sent off for mine 16days ago and still no money taken out the account. Not holding my breath but hopefully it'll be through soon.



Spike

[PPPPP]

17 working days so far and it will apparently be at least 3 more....
They did send my documents and logbook back on request though, a very efficient lady called Vicky is the one to speak to...

[flyingwysiwyg]

My licence, log book and everything else, apart from my passport, went to some poor chap who was waiting for his radio licence?!? He very kindly phoned me and then posted it recorded delivery

Not quite sure how they managed that!

F-Wyg :rolleyes:

[147break]

Took all my PPL bits to Aviation House today.
Current waiting time is 19 working days.
I won't hold my breath!!!

147,

[DaventryCTA]

The CAA have been unundated with applications for licences.

I can tell you that as at Monday 28th July they were processing applications received on 7th July.

Once your fee has been debited to your credit card and/or receipt issued, this marks the spot where your application has been accepted as being "correct". The license is then "loaded" for printing which takes I believe another week to 10 days.

...my fee was taken on Wednesday and hopefully now only a short wait.

nb. the above is from "inside" knowledge and hope it helps !

[Whirlybird]

foghorn,

I wanted to go to Gatwick to get my FI rating issued on the spot, but was told by someone who'd tried that the only way they'll do that now is if you need the licence/rating for a job, and take a letter from your future employer saying so. Don't think there's any way round the wait now, but I phoned them and hassled them every couple of days; I'd waited weeks for my CPL due to some mix-up, and I wasn't going though that again.

BTW, helicopter licences are quite a nice shade of pale grey. Very discreet, but I do like purple...so maybe I should learn to fly a balloon!

[DaventryCTA]

Whirlybird

Because of the shortage of commercial positions, alot of CPL's are appplying to become FI's - the CAA have a large backlog at the moment and the wait for all licences is inevitably going to get worse as CAA staff take their summer hols.

One word of advice that can benefit us ALL - don't keep 'phoning them at Gatwick - their time is better spent dealing with our applications.

[Canadian Luscombe]

I feel sorry for you Brits. In Sweden ... when we do the final examiner checkride ... he/she issues a temporary license on the spot, which you can fly on for a limited time until the real license arrivesThat is also how things work in Canada (and the USA). It's also how we obtain new ratings (i.e., by way of handwritten endorsements on the reverse side of your existing license, pending the issuance of a new one).

Why the CAA would prevent a pilot from exercising the privileges of a license pending the completion of bureaucratic paper-pushing is beyond me. I also don't understand why a passport would be required for issuance of a license (I don't recall what form of identification is required here, but certainly there is no insistance upon a passport, a driver's license would be fine). And the very idea of sending my precious logbook off to Government Land ... :yuk: No thank you!!!

[knobbygb]

but certainly there is no insistance upon a passport, a driver's license would be fine).
Luscombe, our driving licenses don't have photo's (except for very new ones) which probably explains it.

Here you are supposed to show photo ID to the examiner before the test, so if the test pass certificate has the same name and address as the logbook and medical, I don't see the need to send photo ID to the CAA - what could they possibly check it against unless you were physically present? Perhaps they just keep a copy of your photo on record?

[Rupert S]

Does anyone actually know how many people work how many hours a day for how many days a week in the licencing department?

[Fancy Navigator]

Well, one can wonder....
It is a scandal that, first of all, you have to wait that long to get a licence (and therefore not being able to enjoy the full privileges of your licence in the meantime), and secondly, that they mess up with some people as stated in the Forum....
The idea of a temporary licence issued by the FE like in other countries would make more sense.... but hey, administration is not not synonymous with pragmatism, we should all know that !!
I think that they forget the price of the licence issue fee - £146 - .... !:uhoh: :\ :{ For that price, you would expect a decent, quick service, and a nice-looking licence...
Cheers :cool:

[Deano777]

Had a package through the post yesterday, postman woke me up, just done a nightshift and had 2 hrs sleep when the door went, she had this package and I thought YES I may have it, but alas it was my logbook etc being returned, there was a letter inside saying I had forgotten to send my Skill Test Report :{, can you believe that? I have waited 3-4 weeks only to have forgotten that, I read it on the application form but didnt really get what they meant, must have been the exitement of passing etc,
Anyway the letter said they have a turn around time of 19 working days at present but would endeavour to send my liscence 'within' this time period. Heres hoping.

So all you guys applying you have to wait 19 working days :ok:

oh, and remember to send your skill test report ;)

[BEagle]

Personally I think that your Examiner should be required to cross-check ALL your paperwork before it goes off to the CAA. Your logbook should be up-to-date, your PPL application form all drafted out - so all you should have to do is to send it off as soon as you've passed the Skill Test having added the Skill Test flight time.....

I thought that the CAA was obliged under their charter to complete licence issue within 10 working days of having received the application. Assuming that it's been properly submitted, of course.

[Tinstaafl]

Slight correction to Reddo's comment: In Oz you may only exercise the privileges of a licence, rating or endorsement once it has been issued. Therein lies the rub. Ratings and endorsements may be issued by an approved person, in which case they can be used immediately that person signs the sticky label.

Licences however are the preserve of CASA, and CASA alone. You can't exercise the privilege of the licence until it's issued. CASA are the only ones who can issue licences so you have to wait until they do their thing before you can go play.

[jezbowman]

I posted my application on the 14th July and then read this thread at about 10:30 this morning (4th August). I too have only included a photocopy of my passport - not the original.

So panic stricken I began penning an e-mail to FCL to see if I could send in my passport so it would be there ready for the appication (didn't want them to send the WHOLE lot back and have to start again!).

Got about half way thorugh typing when my phone rang. "Hello, Mr. Bowman? This is the CAA". "We have opened your application today and all is in order but there is a small problem in that we need your passport, or a FTO certified copy of it".

So at lunch I made a mad dash home to get it, posted it Special Delivery and now wait again.

I asked how long it would be, assuming they get the PP tomorrow. He said "it's hard to say. We're very busy. Probably the end of the week or early next week". Which seems quite promising....

Why they have been sending EVERYTHING back to people and then 'back of the queing' them is hard to see when all they need is a passport posting...

[DaventryCTA]

To give you guys an update:

7 July Application received at CAA

28 July Phone call from CAA regarding small error on application

30 July Receipt received from CAA

31 July License printed at CAA

4 August Final check signature

5 August My nice new license received by Recorded Delivery

.....do I have a nice big stupid smile on my face !!!! :p

[Flock1]

Yippeeeee!

It finally arrived this morning. No flashing lights, no trumpets, just a plain envelope containing my rather colourful licence. Why did it cost £146 I wonder?

Flock1

[Andrew Sinclair]

Well Done Flock1, you have the "Patience of a Saint"

Regards

Andy

[jezbowman]

Jesus, that's 10 weeks man. I can't stand to think that I may have to wait until 21st September for my License. I simply cannot remain earthbound for that amount of time.

They just posted my Passport back this morning. No letter, just a jiffy with the Passport. No receipt. This must mean I've gone to the back of the :mad: queue. :{.

I can't stand this torture much longer - it's starting to make me ill. Typical British incompetence.

[Spikeee]

Mine came through the post this morning. Not bad - 3 weeks 1 day and just 4 days after they took the fee. I only expected it to be my logbook when I seen it!


Spike

[Andrew Sinclair]

Spikeee,

Check that your licence has been signed on the Ratings Page (P7 I think). I heard a story of a pilot waiting many weeks only to be sent a licence in the post that had not had his rating signed by the CAA Examiner. He now has to wait a further period of time for this page to be re-issued, signed and sent to him.

The CAA were very apologetic about the mistake, but apparently he still may not fly under his own licence privileges until this page arrives so they said, and this seems to stack up with what I have read.

I don’t want to panic you, just thought I would mention it. The occurrence I mentioned may be a one off mistake.

[Spikeee]

Yeah its there thanks.

Cheers for that. Its good to make sure.


Spike

[RodgerF]

Just a few observations on this thread.

Rule 1. When you arrange for your application to go to the CAA. Check everything. Hours, signatures, log book clean and tidy.
(as for pencil in the log book, surprised your instructor let you get away with that). Correct payment. Correct identification
Flying clubs should have a check list for this purpose, but make sure yourself.

Rule 2 See rule 1

Quote

Jesus, that's 10 weeks man. I can't stand to think that I may have to wait until 21st September for my License. I simply cannot remain earthbound for that amount of time.

What's stopping you going flying? Remember there are some people on this forum who can't fly at all for various reasons, eg accident injury, unexpected medical condition. Some are unable to earn a living until their suspension is lifted.


Quote

I think someone could write a book on the adventures of getting a PPL, I am sure it would be a good read for any new folk considering whether to learn to fly!

Already done. 'I learned to fly', Pearson Phillips 1982. OOP now, but secondhand copies are about.

Quote

In the meantime, I had been flying the club aircraft, but having to be signed off by one of the instructors each time I flew (Like being a student).

Now you have your licence the instructors will still keep a discreet eye on you for the first few months. Don't be afraid to ask them for advice.

[Andrew Sinclair]

Thanks for the information on "I learned to Fly" I might try and dig that out. 1982 was a little time back, I would be interested to see how gaining a PPL has changed between 1982 and 2003, what with all the perceived extra/different regulations e.g. JAR etc.

[RodgerF]

Andrew S

If you want something even more period, try to find
'Your Private Pilots Licence' by Betty Cones. Last reprinted in 1979 but must have been written about 10 years before that. Its written by an instructor.

Now you have me thinking I have another book on this topic, must have been written in the 60s. Its written by a PPL I'll see if I can find that.

Pearson Phillips learned to fly at Elstree in an AA5. This was the pre-NFT, pre-JAR and the 38 hour approved course era.

[englishal]

It is pretty silly isn't it. I don't know why the CAA don't trust their examiners to issue you a Temp licence, just like FAA examiners / Driving examiners do when you pass. Then they wouldn't get all this flak on why they take so long.....

EA

[jezbowman]

What's stopping you going flying? Remember there are some people on this forum who can't fly at all for various reasons, eg accident injury, unexpected medical condition. Some are unable to earn a living until their suspension is lifted.

The flying school basically doesn't regonise me while in limbo. "You're not a student and your not a PPL, so you can't fly" is what I was told. So I asked about doing the C172 conversion during limbo. "No because your not a PPL holder and your not a student". They really don't want my money.

Believe me, my heart goes out to anybody who can't fly for whatever reason. To want to fly and be restricted is unthinkable. My need is selfish but the problem is petty and unnessercery. We are the only developed country who has a CAA which is years behind the times, taking months to do what other countries take days or even minutes to do.

My anger is not so much being unable to fly, it's the reason why I can't. And that appies to a lot of people. I AM fit to fly and I AM capable to fly (and very grateful to be both) but since I do not have a piece of paper in a poo brown plastic cover to prove it, I CAN'T fly. That is daft.

I feel very sorry for everybody who is waiting (especially those who are awaiting employment) and very pleased and relieved for those whose licenses are now arriving, congratulations to you!

[RodgerF]

jez

I cannot understand your clubs attitude. There is no legal reason why you cannot do the C172 flying or be signed out solo whilst awaiting your licence.

My apologies if I sounded tetchy with you. I cannot conceive of a club who would want to operate like this. You are right they cannot want your money.

RF

[PPPPP]

Jez,

Licence finally arrived this morning, 4 weeks and two days after the forms arrived at Gatwick, and seven days after getting the receipt for the fee. However in the interim my club was quite happy to sign me off for solo flight, and I even had a club check flight in a type I hadn't flown for ages during the wait. Your club's attitude seems......strange.

[jezbowman]

Thanks Guys for the feedback. My reciept arrived this morning so fingers crossed my License is also only a week away.

I may call the school again tomorrow and argue a bit about their principles. Thing is, although I'm the customer, I'm at their mercy to some extent with regards to aircraft hire and flexability. I don't want to annoy them....

With this crappy weather it's not really worth it anyway! Fingers crossed for getting airtime next weekend!

[jezbowman]

Tra-laa-laa. It came this morning!

It seems the CAA have finally got through the back-log and got it sorted. For those still waiting, good news. Here's my breakdown:

13th July - Passed Skills Test.
14th July - Posted Application
15th July - Arrived at CAA.
4th August - CAA phone - they need Passport.
5th August - Passport is delivered.
7th August - Passport sent back.
8th August - Reciept arrived.
9th August - PPL arrives.

Now, where's the thread for whinging about the weather?

[Flock1]

Just been away for the weekend, and enjoyed flashing my licence at innocent bystanders, and then came home and checked this thread.

I read Andrew Sinclair's comment about the lack of examiner authorisation on page 7 with rising panic.....surely not.......not after what i'd been through.

Flip - page 1, flip, flip, flip (cringing), flip (cringing), flip, flip (cringing and grimacing). Open my eyes. glance down. No authorisation. Close my eyes, look down again. But the gaping space where the examiner's bits should've been filled in. is still there.

Nightmare come true.

I feel victimised.

[vfr-uk]

Anyone know current timescales?

Sent 1st week in September - so far I've only had passport and payment notice back....

The really annoying thing is - I held off sending the license until I got back from honeymoon, only to find out that I could have used a photocopy of the passport if the club countersigned it! (Doh - no one told me that). So by the time I got back from honey moon, and got to the club to tidy up the paperwork, it was almost two months since passing!!!

Now it's nearly three... Still - gives me a chance to get checked out at a new club (moved to Brighton) and try and get used to new circuits and local area....

Can't wait for my first passenger flight... out of interest - how many hours do people spend practicising by themselves before taking passenger with them? I know you can do it straight away (assuming you're up-to-date on the hours/landings) - but personally I think I'll wait a few months of solo 'practice' flight before I take people with me....

[strafer]

sstreet
suggest you start a new thread re your last paragraph - I'd be interested to know what other people thought/did.

[dublinpilot]

I couldn't wait at all! Got my licence back same week that I passed, and brought my first pax up on the very next flight...that weekend.

I did keep it really simple. A nice short route (about 1 hour), all in area I was very familiar with, and with great big land marks. Don't under estimate the pressure bringing a pax for the first time puts on you. So make it easy on yourself and keep it simple. My pax was suitably impressed, and thought it all looked so complicated, especially the nav, and for me it was one of the easiest nav's I'd ever had to do :) great all round :)

[jezbowman]

Same here. After waiting weeks for the license (well three in the end, but the worst bit was thinking it would take much longer) it finally came. About the same time a stagnated high pressure system came as well, bringing daily vis of 4-5km for a week so by the time that cleared I was non-current with the school. First nice day came a week later - 40kms vis and a gorgous day. Booked the day off work as holiday. Three circuits with the instructor got me current and then my first passenger flight was a land away down to Turweston (about a 40 minute flight). Cookies and tea before a return flight to EMA. The following day I did two more flights (local flights to both the north and south of EMA zone) both taking in landmarks that were new to me.

You learnt navigation for good reason, to be able to navigate anywhere. Don't get into a 'local landmarks' way of thinking - get out and see something new.

I agree that the first PAX flight is interesting. Plenty of 'Are you okay?' etc. And don't forget you have to breif them!

On the third day I checked out on the C172R. The following weekend as my first flight P1 in it I took it straight to an aerodrome I hadn't visted before - Wellesbourne - with two PAX.

Two PAX is a different experience. When you have one PAX it's easy to stop the conversation if you need to think, you just stop talking. However, shutting up two people who talk to each other is a whole different thing - they don't know when your trying to do something mentally demanding so just keep talking.

A few flights on and I've learnt how to block out conversation and 'tune in' to ATC while a conversation is going on in the background. Usually I just turn up the radio above the PAX volume until I can hear, or they get the message and shut it!

Go on - put that training to use. Remeber the examiner signed you off as responsible and capable to carry passengers. You don't need to learn anything new before you do - he thinks you are ready now! Otherwise you wouldn't have passed.

And do whatever you feel comfatable with - but don't just spend weeks on end taking loadsa mates up on local flights in the same area. You worked hard to get the license so spread your wings and do what you want to do with it. Visit a new aerodrome, fly to the coast, go and see some local landmark from the air that you haven't seen before.

Above all, don't loose the ability to navigate over new terrain - being 'current' means many things and being able to fly the plane is only one of them!

Oh, and the current latency at the CAA is at the bottom of http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/default.asp .