CPL FTOs your experience/advice

[Mintflavour]

Anybody got any experience with the following FTO list below. If so any info/references would be much appriciated in my decision to start my CPL.

Billins
Bonus
Coulson
Walkbury
Atlantic


Cheers

Mint

[Chuffer Chadley]

Well, Minty-boy, it's a funny old thing-

I see nobody's replied. I posted a similar question, regarding Bournemouth FTOs not so long ago, and nobody replied to that, either. Just mention the word 'Groundschool' and everyone pipes up, but no one seems to want to talk about their flying. Curiouser and curiouser.

Ho, Hum.

Good Luck

CC

[Mintflavour]

Strange isnt it, no PMs no nothing. I asked the same question some months ago and again no replys.
I have carried out some searches and there seem to be very few treads if any on the individual schools.

Does most people give up after the theory or something, then again these schools have managed to stay in business so somebody is going to them

mint

[RodgerF]

Part of the problem with discussing this is that because flight training is such a personal business, one persons experience may differ wildly from another at the same school. I went to two FTOs during my training, one was a 'sausage-machine' and you had to fend for yourself. The other was a small FTO with a small team who took the time to overcome the problems I experienced.

Make no mistake for most pilots commercial training is hard work, harder flying than you have ever experienced.

Best thing to do is to go and visit, talk to the other students if you can, see if the instructors are the sort you can get on with, look at the aircraft, see if you would be happy there.

I can't speak for the Moderators on this forum, but posts that are directly identifiable might be actionable.

Also since this is an anonymous forum, PMs provide no protection to the message sender.

[Mintflavour]

Rodger
I see your point, but surely a good word about a place isnt going to offend anybody and therefore no action. Just for somebody to say I had a good experince at their FTO would give greater confidence in spending your money there, understandable that it will not garrentee that you will have great experience, but still.


Mint

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Well out of your shortlist I'd say Atlantic.

Good luck,

WWW

[Dufwer]

I would think that those people who have obtained their CPL/IR would not spend much time on the wannabe forums. Look at the private flying forum and you will see loads of people talking about their PPL flight training and the flying they do now. That is because the forum is focused on private flying as a whole. The wannabe forum, at least the way I see it, is simply a stepping stone to the next level. Perhaps if the powers that be could convince pilot employers to advertise jobs in this forum then you would have more feed back from qualified commercial pilots. :ugh:

D

[Megaton]

I looked into all those schools (and others) for the IR and Atlantic came out top. Visit as many as you can and you'll understand. Some I discounted purely on distance from home (Airways, Bournemouth, Bristol). Some were discounted on reputation (OATS, CABAIR). I visited Triple A, Multiflight, Atlantic, Airways, OATS, Bristol, Aeros, Humber Flying Club, Babcock-HCS. From these Atlantic came out top for locality, airfield, professionalism, VFM, aircraft, sims and customer care and attitude.

[African Drunk]

Also look at Aeros and Bristol. Know both schools and they are both good. High pass rates, not overcrowded, good instructors, good a/c and good reputations for not f#cking you about over money.

Out of your shortlist I'd agree with WWW about Atlantic.

[FougaMagister]

I also agree with WWW on this one - go for Atlantic Flight Training. You won't be disappointed (or robbed). I know I wasn't (and got first time passes, too!).

Happy landings

[PetPilot]

Hi Guyz

Heres my two pence worth.

I attended EPTA in Bmth for my frozen ATPL a few months back. I did my flying with Andy Hogg 95% of the time (CFI) for the IR.

I found Andy a really relaxed guy, who was a pleasure to fly with. Nothing was too much trouble for him. To give you all an example, he would be in all day saturday and sometimes Sundays to get peoples flying done (not because they were over booked).

The office staff are really nice too, especially Liz . On my first day I was greeted by Jane, It was certainly a change to see a nice smiling face compared to some flight training places I have been to in the past.

The Ground School staff are the best from the defunked PPSC staff, Keith and Derek.

I also did the MCC with Captain Richard Smith , a retired BA 747 Captain, along with captain Bob Ponter, an ex European Air Charter 1-11 pilot. Two very exprienced pilots with alot of Airline knowledge to give.


You often see people on here asking which is the cheapest MCC to do. I looked at a number of MCC places, including Atlantic Flight Training and muilti crew.

Multi crew use the same Sim as EPTA but charge an extra £800 and I think Atlantic use a FNPT 2, same as what most people do the IR sim work on, quite frankly its PANTS compared to a full motion Tri star sim with full visuals, and before everyone gets all over excited, its only about £200 extra at EPTA and includes a full CRM course. Theres nothing quite like opening up the thrust levers on a heavy jet and hearing those big rolls royce engines wind up to Take off power, oh, and apart from having sex lol.

You will probably find that the people in favour of Atlantic are ex Fuggs (cadets), or what ever u call them, so take there comments with a pinch (wagon full) of salt.

Suggest you do a search on here with the schools you are interested in, some of it makes interesting reading.

Theres always good and bad comments about all the schools, all I can adives is that you visit as many as possible and chat to the SELF sponsored guyz and girls with out the staff in the back ground.

Good Luck with your flying mate

PP



:ok:

[Megaton]

Petpilot,

So how do you figure that either WWW or myself are ex-sponsored students? WWW's background is on public record and I have never had any connection with Atlantic until I visited them a few weeks ago. You sound like you're trying to convince yourself, in addition to everyone else, that you made the right decision.

If you notice, the title of the thread is about FTOs for CPL training so why not make some useful remarks about their ability to undertake training for Mintflavour's CPL rather than get sidetracked on to the rather different argument regarding jetsims vs FNPT IIs.

I don't think there are as many hidden agendas as you would like to believe so chill a little. :cool:

[Fogbound]

Sorry, may just be me being cynical but PetPilot are you on commission?!?!?!?!:)



I see your point, but surely a good word about a place isnt going to offend anybody and therefore no action. Just for somebody to say I had a good experince at their FTO would give greater confidence in spending your money there, understandable that it will not garrentee that you will have great experience, but still.

Mint flavours comment above. the problem is that not everyone in here is as they seem, therefore a nice comment about a school may be a Sales & Marketing pitch, unfortunately you cannot always pick out a hidden agenda!

As I say may be me just being cynical, no offence meant.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

No hidden agendas. I *do* like to see the worthy smaller FTO's getting discussed on these forums. There is so much about the big boys that is often frustrates me.

For example I am very impressed by a new commercial school called Westflight based out of my back yard at Gloucester. Put together by the old OATS modular instructors they have a lean and mean setup as far as I can see.

I know you can't find more experienced instructors, their kit and importantly syllabus is well thought out and they are based at a useful training airfield.

I think its great that the industry continues to flourish and improve despite the setbacks and the bad times we have witnessed over recent years.

There are some superb schools out there that can knock the socks off BAE, OATS and CABAIR.

Cheers,

WWW

[PetPilot]

Nope, sorry guys, I aint on commission, just saying what a good school it was, but like I said, have a look at all the available schools to you, after all, one school may not suit all.

Think people on here really do need to chill, im completely frozen solid.

[African Drunk]

www

Has Westflight picked up much business? I know vince is now up there but it was very quiet a few months back.

AD

[Obs cop]

Mintflavour,

I'm currently training via the modular route with Atlantic so I can provide some feedback and info on their setup. I did visit others, but as I didn't fly with others I naturally only have a single viewpoint not a comparison.

In all that I have encountered with Atlantic, they have been approachable, helpful and more importantly honest and realistic.

If you speak to them, their pricing is up front and they tell you exactly what you get. The costs are given not including landing fees or vat. (Landing fees are about £5)

The main pluses are that they have a new training/operations building which is run in a professional and organised manner. The instructors I have so far dealt with are very knowledgable and more importantly keen to help individual students (assuming they want to help themselves!). Their aircraft are well maintained and they have a new piper seminole for twin work.

Normally they keep courses split which is actually a benefit for someone like myself. They do the CPL first in a single then the twin rating then the IR. The benefits in separating the learning to improve my chances of first time passes for me far outweighs the slightly higher price compared to combined courses.

But as I say, this is a personal opinion not a comparison. Your best bet would be to call Matthew Margesson their comercial director for a chat. Better still, give them a visit and see for yourself.

Hope this helps

Obs cop

PS I am not an ex cadet as suggested by petpilot's remarks, I am a current wannabe paying with my own hard earnt cash.

[Mintflavour]

Thanks for your responses
To continue you further debate,
Assuming you pass your CPL first time where ever you decide to go, is there any foreseeable disadvantages if you did it at a smaller FTO on a very small airfield for example, ie doesnt look as impressive on the CV etc.

Mint

[cfb]

WWW.

Thank you for your kind comments about Westflight, you summed us up very well.

To answer African Drunk, yes, Vince Robertson joined Westflight and Mark Bills at the beginning of July, and our lack of recent advertising confirms that we are indeed pretty well booked up with some excellent and very hard working students at this time.

cfb

[FougaMagister]

Pet Pilot, I did train with Atlantic Flight Training for CPL and IR, but I am no Fugly. I am (was?) self-sponsored, and chose Atlantic after quite a bit of research. I visited the place, asked questions, got quotes, liked their approach to instructing, went for it, and I don't regret my choice - they got me through CPL and IR flawlessly and at a reasonable price.

Cheers

[jimthebus]

Ok i'm new, please be gentle.

Im looking at some options for various frozen ATPL courses, namely OAT, CTC, Cabair, BAE and EPTA. From perusing this forum i'm under the impression that these courses are not the best idea due to failing slightly in the flying side of things. Also i notice that the whole course at EPTA is around half the cost of that quoted for the other schools, any idea why that is?

When sponsorships are on the go the big players use some of these schools as their FTO's which gave me the impression that they would be a good bet in terms of flying training and ground school.

And lastly is it not a better idea to do an integrated course than a modular one.

If im being ignorant or something im sorry.

Any info greatly appreciated.

[moo]

hi jim, welcome to pprune!

I don't know what gave you the impression that OAT, BAe, Cabair etc. fail slightly in the flying side of things. They are all reputable, approved schools with high quality training. There are also lesser well-known schools in this country that provide training to the same standard but for less money. BAe, OAT and Cabair are the only three schools that are approved by the CAA to run Integrated full-time courses, hence why the airlines use them. They do have very good names, but don't get too hung up on the reputation of schools, recent GAPAN research suggests that the airlines aren't all that bothered where you train. Use your head and do plenty of research on Pprune and you'll make the 'which school' easily enough.
As for Intergrated Vs Modular, now you've opened a can of worms! Before the Lynching begins, I'd suggest you do a search of Wannabes on the exact words 'integrated vs modular'. You will get a serious number of hits with that baby let me tell you! It has been done to death here in the past

hope that helps! :ok:

[jimthebus]

Cheers for that i'm off to traul the previous discussions.

[interlink]

In reply to www re : Westflight, I am amazed at this posting, considering you are a moderator, this sounds more like an advert than a recommendation, I visited Westflight among many others in my weary search for a school for my IR, they only have one twin for training and at the time a guy had been waiting 3 weeks to test because of an ADF breakdown. I couldn't gather any more information since the CFI wanted to leave early, it being a Friday. Good kit, I think not?

[cfb]

Interlink,
Please make sure that your statements are correct before posting. I don't recollect you visiting Westflight, and I generally meet all prospective students.
Our Seneca II has never been offline for more than 1 day except for its recent annual and normal checks. This includes a recent ADF possible fault where the unit was changed by Alec Vincent from RGV within 1 hour of being reported faulty.
Since we started, all of our students have completed their CPL / ME / IR course with 13 weeks of starting, and have all achieved 1st time CPL passes, and 1st series IRT's.

I know that this is a rumour network, but plain untruths are not fair, unless you have another agenda ?

Why don't you pm me with your real issues.

Chris Brooks
Westflight Owner

[Chinchilla.612]

Hiya,
Well I am afraid to say that I do not have any experience of the schools you shortlisted there. However, I have just completed my CPL/IR with Airways Flight Training in Exeter and can highly recomend them to anyone. They were very professional had good aircraft and got me through the whole thing within 4 weeks, without going over hours and with full first time passes for both the CPL and the IR.
I wish you well on your quest, and as I say.........check them out......may be as good for you as they were for me :o)
Chinchilla.

[interlink]

Another agenda - just what exactly do u mean by that?

I don't know who u are so I don't know whether i met u or not but I know the student personally who had to wait for his test and it was definately not one day - so before u start insinuating people are lying or have hidden agendas look inside first.

Your attitude to my post was similar to that I received when I visited and I am even more pleased that I made a different choice.

The school I went to was superb although they shall remain nameless just in case I am yet again accused of having an agenda

so I will ask the question CFB - do you have more than one twin?

and in answer to your other selling point I completed my CPL/ME/IR in 8 weeks with a first time pass, I flew every day most days twice and am now working flying a jet.