new carrier - BFS to LHR

[no, no, no]

I have heard strong rumours that BFS international are calling together a few key agents in Northern Ireland for a meeting regarding a new carrier operating BFS to Heathrow...

Has anyone ehard about this at all? In my eyes LHR slots wouldn't be available, so the only ones who could do this are BA, who are very unlikely as they pulled off the route 2 years ago for it being a loss maker, or bmi, who only pulled off the route this year for the same reason.

They have mentioned though that it won't be easyjet or ryanair.

If anyone has any information on this it would be great to hear it.

[eastern wiseguy]

There was a rumour running around a while back that Aer Lingus were to step in......personally we all thought that to be unlikely ....maybe we were wrong!!Time will tell.

[ALLMCC]

wonder where this rumour has come from - this really is pie in the sky stuff! - BFS has alienated virtually all mainline carriers which is why BMI finally severed its connections earlier this year - as for Aer Lingus, they stated after announcing cessation of the Dublin - Cork route, that they would be concentrating on routes out of Ireland - presumably this means Eire and not N Ireland.

Agree not likely to be a lo-co - Heathrow does not have any at the moment and probably will not want any either - in any event, BMI have this route pretty much sewn up with BHD - LHR and will certainly put up a fight against any newcomer!

[BELHold]

EI has been represented continually in the BFS AOC....keeping a foot in the door?

[controller friendly]

Sorry but imho you're all talkin balix......!

As one who is doin a lot of travellin between NI and LHR we all no that BA and bmi were talkin the proverbial when they said the route wasn't busy.
For a start the BA accountants were bein economical with the figures and bmi were only pretendin 2 offer a service which gave them an excuse 2 pull off the route from bfs.
For at least the last 4 weeks bmi have been offerin passengers the choice of a voluntary off load because the flights are 2 full & only this week i have flown from dublin because i could not get back to belfast.....as usual belfast people are left to suffer cause its all about slots slots slots.........blah......2nd class citizen & thats all that matters.....:*

[mysecretsmile]

I tend to agree with the rest of you. If anyone wanted to compete on the LHD service out of Northern Ireland they would have to do it from BHD to have any success.BFS is too far out of the city for passengers to travel the extra 25 mins from Belfast.

BFS is going to have to settle for being the low cost hub and charter airport for the moment. Well thats until BHD convince the local residents of the merits to having its passenger cap limit lifted
and to allow later flights in. When that happens and its only a matter of time, then BFS is going to have some real competition as then the likes of Ryanair have another possible airport to talk too.

I too have heard rumours about Aer Lingus in talks to launch a new service from NI. But it was in relation to flights from BHD via a tie in with Aer Arann.

[ALLMCC]

Thanks for that, my secret smile - saw in last weekend press that so called local residents in East Belfast flexing their muscles yet again - this time they're threatening to go to Strasbourg because they feel their "human rights" are being infringed by flights operating after 2130! - what a load of ***** - these people send letters to local press under various pseudonyms such as "steering groups" and "residents associations" - the letters are usually peppered with so many inaccuracies that they dont even warrant reading!

One can hope eventually they'll give up complaining about nothing and let BHD get on with the job - once runway resurfacing is complete we may well some interesting developments.

[eastern wiseguy]

Allmcc..the residents of east Belfast have every right to complain about the unjustified expansion attempts.They were there LONG before a COMMERCIAL operation stepped in and attempted to hijack the agreed limits on passenger figures and hours of operation.It was only a few years ago that the then MD ...Buckby said in an interview that BHD was a green airport and only operated between the hours of dawn and dusk(so it closes about 1600 on a December afternoon? ).
When Bmi moved their operation they were well aware of the limitations they were placing themselves under.They knew there was a virtual nighttime curfew and they knew and accepted the facilities available to them.Increasing the runway length is but ONE piece of the jigsaw...many more items need attention before an operation such as you describe could take place.To have a PROPER system in place there needs to be more stands ....more taxiways ....decent radar!!(how many tubes have you got left TR?and where will you get more if it goes phutt?).As it WILL take a public enquiry before anything is likeley to change I think this will run and run

MYSECRETSMILE

Not EVERYONE finds BFS inconvenient...ask the upwards of 4.5 million who will use it this year .

[controller friendly]

Even i don't know what i was rambling on about last nite, something to do with goin out for lunch and comin home about midnight.....:bored:

Anyway i really don't know why everyone thinks more people are using midland cause its handier at the city......wrong....we don't have a choice. Its also amusin when they keep bangin on about the increase in passengers,it wouldn't be anything to do with the other carrier leaving the route and midland pickin up their passengers.......?

Personally the city is so not handy for me, plus i'm gettin fed up feelin like a crash test dummy every time i land. I've also heard passengers are gettin fed up with the amount of go arounds,seen 2 this week myself. As i've said as usual the population of NI are sufferin as there is only 1 carrier on the route:*

Oh yeah RYR in the city.....mayb if we're talkin the 146's they've inherited but a full 737 and that 1829m runway don't mix, and as we all know RYR need full aircraft....

Enough for now,i'm even boring myself....:hmm:

[Tower Ranger]

Afraid I don`t agree with EW , as often I have to talk to the complaining residents and to be honest it`s about four or five regulars. (one so regular that I know his address and phone no. off by heart)
Don`t quote but the first commercial flights from the City were in about 1938 , as regards to the noise levels you can`t tell me an A321 is noisier than any jet from the 70`s eg BA111 or even the earlier Hs125`s.
Traffic level`s higher? fraid not we`re shifting bigger A/C with more pax but we have less scheduled movements than three or four years back. I believe the increase in resident complaints is more to do the general trend in society to complain about the slightest thing. If you disregarded the complaints from inhabitants of properties valued at over £300k I wonder how many noise complaints would be left??
The bit that makes me laugh is the attitude of local politicians. In East Belfast the ship yard is on it`s last legs Bombardier has laid off thousands surely you would think that there would be support for a major employer in the area who is committed to growth and bringing more buissness to Belfast!!

[eastern wiseguy]

TR ....you should spin for Tony!!:ok: You and I both know that the RNAS SYDENHAM or whatever was NEVER a commercial operation.The occassional puddle jumper to and from England was not the problem.The city is now trying to become the main player in terms of punters shifted in NI and as such both the numbers and size of aircraft have increased dramatically.I notice that you are not trying to defend the proposed increase in late night extensions ....or your cathode ray tube:ok:Still some of those fancy houses house fancy QC's ...so we will hear more when/if the enquiry opens .

LEFT BASE 22 AGAINST THE EXPANSION!!:D

[Tom the Tenor]

What length is BHD in feet and inches? Am afraid the ol' brain is no good with those Euro metres! What do you all up there at BHD think of Jetmagic and their double daily from Cork?

[keepitlit]

I'd love to see one in each airport,lookin at the pax numbers I think it could be done.

Rgds K.I.L:ok:

P.S. FC wokin sorry:{

[carlos vandango]

the 321 is a lot louder than a 146..it should be too, it's twice the size. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs their ears syringed...maybe they've been standing around 321's a lot:rolleyes:

[Tower Ranger]

Eastern , the fact remains we are still about 16 movements per day down on what we shifted three years back and although i`m no fan of twelve hour shifts if you buy a ticket to fly to Bhd you should arrive there delayed or not.
Several of our sensitive neighbours have ppl`s I wonder how much consideration they have for the locals at EGAD?
Defend the radar equipment? There are some things not even I could put a good spin on!! If I say too much about it on here I`ll only end up in someones office.

[mysecretsmile]

ALLMCC - i agree with you in relation to it being only a few troublesome residents that will make the late night extension at BHD a problem. Alot will depend on the local elections and if and when they happen.

At the moment because the local elections may still happen, the likes of Reg Empey and Peter Robinson will jump on the band wagon and defend the local residents saying how bad the noise is etc - anything to insure they win a few extra votes. Yet these same politicans use the same airport on a weekly basis and attend functions and openings there saying how great a facility it is for Belfast.

They know that the airport will shortly be the largest single employer in the area and if given the chance it will employ many hundreds more.

Eastern Wiseguy - i am afraid you are living in the past if you think BHD isn't going to become the main player for airtravel in and out of NI

Tom the Tenor - I can't speak for all the guys n gals of BHD but I think the daily Jetmagic service to Cork is great. It's doing decent loads and I hear talk that they might consider increasing their number of destinations out of BHD - possibly a European destination in the near future or making BHD their UK base. Certainly if they don't its only a matter of time before someone else will.

[Tom the Tenor]

Crikey, that is very interesting speculation, indeed! I am all for it if they do - another great opportunity for Jetmagic? :ok:

[carlos vandango]

Jetmagic? perhaps you guys might like to read their website regarding plans for the future and not expanding too quickly before concluding they are about to conquer the universe in their first 6 months of trading. They look like a well thought out operation but i doubt you'll find more bases on the cards in the near future. Their timetable looks suitable to market through flights via cork though..perhaps that could be an option.
Perhaps someone from Jetmagic could comment on this before a good old dose of pprune fantasy takes over?

[eastern wiseguy]

Mysecretsquirell....living in the past ...not a chance ..working on a daily basis in the real world .The chances of BHD becoming the main player in the grand scheme of things is up there with your transatlantic flight from LDY ....

TR ...Always worth a try!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx edited cos I don't want an interview either!!
:ok:

[CormacL]

As a regular staff commuter working for a certain fav airline:) all I can say is that at the moment BMI tend to be excellant with us out of BHD , and the rumour within the corridors of BA is, short of an oil find on the antrim road then the odds of BA going back to bfs/bhd-lhr are slighty worse than messers adams and paisley going to church together;)
However have just heard a rumour that BMI have asked airbus to take another look at the perf figs for 04/22 particulary when wet as there is a question as to whether the 321 should actually be able to op into bhd.
If it does go to all 320`s that will really screw up myself and co who kind of depend on the service to go to work

[jbird11]

It is a shame to see BFS become a charter and low cost airport over the past few years. A lot of money was put into BFS to add a proper chk-in area as the old one was tired and not enough desks to chk-in the many flts that used to operate out off there. BFS has seen so many one hit wanders operate there and I really cannot see a LHR-BFS service in the near future, as for EI I really cannot see them operating a full service to NI to the mainland, for a start they havent got the a/c, they are already axing a few flights already to open up new routes to JER/TFS/PMI from DUB. On the otherhand I bet you any money EZY will open BFS into a thriving base to other european destinations, it really is a shame to see AMS being the only direct european destination that serves the province. You only have to look at EDI and it is opening up big style with new airlines arriving all the time (with the aid of the scottish excutive I might add).

[mysecretsmile]

eastern wiseguy - iam glad to hear that you are indeed living in the present, but i will point out that my previous thread referring to transatlantic services from LDY was in fact as a result of a press article in which I had read and indeed provided a link to in the orginal post.

I am glad it brought a smile to your face !

jbird11 - I agree with you on alot of your points. lets hope the NI executive can get their act together and help support some scheduled new european services (preferable from BHD)

I think the important point is that any new routes that receive funding must be shown to be viable and that the money isn't simply given out to line the pockets of the airlines.

link (http://icnorthernireland.icnetwork.co.uk/businessnews/busnews/page.cfm?objectid=13158220&method=full&siteid=91603&headline=%A325m%20Cash%20Injection%20Needed%20for%20Airport)

[glynn-kayes]

you can expand all you want at bhd but the fact remains it will never be a 24 hour operation as i have said before on this subject bhd was only ever opened so that shorts could keep the unions on their side in the late 70s early 80s and 95 percent of the workforce were from east belfast a few of my family worked at shorts then and a few still do.....back then instead of facing the sack skilled trademen were offered ramp jobs at bhd and most recently bombardier of canada thought that they owned belfast international so they were really in touch with the operation... not ?..bhd is responsible for splitting traffic in northern ireland and stopping european operators from coming in to the province it has held northen ireland back in terms of scheduled services i think it is only a matter of time time before bacx say byebye aer arran are pulling off the dublin route and jetmagic loads are awfull despite what others are saying and as for aer wales i dont hold out much hope for them by the way how is old flymo thompson haha

[Richard Everest]

So, in essence, nobody is actually about to start flying between BFS & LHR, and contoller friendly doesn't have a 'g' on her keyboard! ;)

Speaking from afar, whereas BHD may be closer to Belfast, is BFS not more central to NI? Why the big fuss about the time taken to the centre of the universe, sorry, city?

I do agree with the friendly one, though- if there's only one airline presently seving the route, it's hardly surprising they're carrying lots of pax, is it?

[brabazon]

What about this as the possible new BFS-LHR start-up? So Jeremy "Airport" Spake has a few slots up his sleeves then....

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97748

[25minutes]

All very well to speculate about LHR routes out of city,but is anyone seriously going to compete with the prices and frequency of the province,s largest carrier out of BFS?

[no, no, no]

I think if anyone comes up with a new service to Heathrow from Belfast International then it has a very good chance of stealing pax who want to go to Heathrow, but don't want to go to BHD airport (hence are forced on to easy), or go to LHR from BHD, but really want to go to BFS.

Also, as bmi's LHRBHD loads are always full from what I hear, extra capacity would probably be snapped up straight away to Heathrow for point-point as well as connecting traffic.....

I still think bmi would have the upper hand though from City airport as you mention the fares would be the battle ground

but as Jeremy mentions it will be like an airline like no other - maybe it will be a flying circus with bouncy castles......

[mysecretsmile]

thanks brabazon for referring to Jerermy "**** "Spakes intention of setting up a new airline with the possibility of a base in BFS.

It was interesting to read what Jeremy had to say about his new airline. He has obviously never gone from BFS to Belfast City Centre as he says,

"using smaller airports, often with poor bus and rail connections, was "a bit of a nonsense"

So he may re consider setting up at BFS then ?

Although it may not be a small airport, the transportation links to it are third rate at best. For what is supposed to be a major international airport, not having a proper train link is a disgrace and the reason why they never will have a train link is that the management of BFS would lose thousands in valuable car park revenue and so don't want it.

[Tom the Tenor]

Glynn K, your information about ORK-BHD loads on GX is spherical and in the plural.

[Tower Ranger]

Oh Glynn you have no idea how your posts brighten my day!!

Surely you can`t seriously believe that BHD has held back an influx of international flights from BFS? Tell me which of our present routes causes such international competition ........ tell us which of our freight operators has Aldergrove shaking in their boots..........get real!!

If there was no City airport there would be less choice and higher fares for the travelling public.

BTW who wants to stay open 24 hours another hour and a half will do just fine thanks!!

[glynn-kayes]

tower ranger, nice to hear from you ,how are you, im simply stating a fact that most people in the industry know that northern ireland has too small a population to support 3 airports <bringing ldy into the conversation>so what if the business traveller has a 15-20 minute ride into belfast city centre , the world does revolve around belfast city centre or so what if the holiday maker has to go from bangor for that terrible long journey to bfs to get their holiday flight,in man, people travel from leeds liverpool teeside newcastle stoke on trent wales everyday for hols and business alike so the argument about bhd being sooo handy for everyone is absolute s@@t you and i know bfs has better facilities and will always be superior to bhd..as for traffic and euro operators, a few years ago i had a conversation with geoff muirhead the md of manchester airport,in our conversation he pointed out that european operators see bfs/bhd as one of the most stupid situations regarding air travel with large scale watering down of services in an underpopulated province..and it should not be about competition between airports,but airlines in one facility,now think about a price war that would be...anyway im off to pour a wee vodka and coke <again> good luck ya all:ok: :ok: :ok: :ok: