ATC visits

[j17]

Before we became one of the many, to be barred from the cockpit, on famflight trips controllers used to participate on these trips on their days off.Why are there no pilots prepared to visit thier local ATC unit on their days off to get the feel of what goes on, or is that I am to busy or cannot be bothered factor creeping in .If you come to Manch you can get TWR/GMC Appr Radar and various Area sectors you might want to see all in a day

[Neo]

I've visited LGW, BHX and other ATC units. It's a really good way to achieve a good understanding of both sides of the operation. However, I don't feel the need to visit my local tower very often. Most pilots of any significant career mileage will have enjoyed similar visits, but I suspect the numbers aren't enough to give the impression of regular visits.

I am really looking forward to the opportunity to visit the new centre at Swanick when the opportunity presents itself.

[STANDTO]

Remember what happened in Die Hard 2............

Joking apart, I am surprised people are let in

just a thought

[Spitoon]

This should mean something to ATC people at least but ....

Doesn't the ATC TRUCE stuff say something about liaising with local aircraft operators and crews??? Does this ever happen anywhere?

[Gonzo]

It's a shame really. I went on a fam flight recently with Aer Lingus. Took up a whole day off and I had to pay the tax myself, but I thought it was worth it, first time in an airliner cockpit for two and a half years. But how many ATCOs do you know that would give up a day off and pay the tax as I did? Not many I suspect. Only us 'anoraks'?

Spitoon, on our TRUCE, or back when it was ECT, we used to watch a BA produced video featuring a few sim check rides, and that was the extent of airline involvement. The fact that BA's sim centre at Cranebank was 2 miles away didn't seem to count for very much. And then I learnt last year that ATCOs from other airports (that BA don't fly to......) get to sit in with BA at Cranebank. And yet Heathrow controllers don't....hmmmm.

Not that I'm bitter, of course, but it's been pointed out recently elsewhere on the forum, having ATCOs doing TRUCE and flight crew on emergency sim runs surely would benefit all parties.....

[wing_nut1]

You will find that in most airports if you are crew/airport staff etc and have a question about what goes on, 95% of the time they will be willing to let you up and explane what goes on. Ive been up several times and its well worth a visit:ok:

[spudskier]

Actually, being a private pilot working on my commercial/instrument, I wanted to visit a tower...

I talked to the head supervisor of the Dayton tower (ohio) at the Dayton Airshow, and he said no way, try back when the alert level went below orange/yellow. He said most towers (of larger airports anyway) and centers won't allow tours unless they know the people personally.

[prim1]

Sim rides are for pilot licensing purposes,not Air Traffic entertainment

[Arch Stanton]

prim1

ATC simulator runs are for ATCO licensing purposes, not for pilot entertainment.

Almost as stupid as your post - but not quite.

[uffington sb]

Well said AS.

I spent 29 years in military ATC and very rarely saw pilots in the Tower. Apart from the Duty Pilot, who had obviously drawn the short straw, and initial pilot training courses that was about it. Of course, there were a few DP's who would try out doing a GCA, being supervised, in VMC and with the pilots OK, I should add! But on the whole, no interest in ATC.
On the reverse, I tried for years to get a fam flight in a Harrier, but being a SGT controller and not wearing a 'lumpy jumper', I guess my chances were limited.
It's good to see that the 'them and us' atitude is alive and well in my new occupation of railway signaller. A driver in the Box to see how we operate, noway. A cab ride so I can see my signals from the drivers perspective, you must be joking!!!! :)

[5milesbaby]

Occasionally TC at West Drayton get 'help' on their TRUCE training by one of their friends at BA, and rarely pilots touring Swanwick have been asked to give a little input to a senario during a run, to show them the extent of our training and equipment.

Well said Arch Stanton, and prim1, by having an ATCO at a sim check, surely the added input from a proper ATC perspective can add so much to the learning involved by doing these checks. Also, with ATC gradually being allowed back into the cockpit, it is possible that one of us could be over your shoulder in real life too, so its really simulating an even more real situation!! Every little helps....

[flower]

I went to Cranebank some years ago now with Maersk. I t was quite frankly some of the best emergency training I could ever do. I did the RT for more realism but to see how much workload goes on even in just a regular everyday go-around was an invaluable insite which has better prepared me for any emergencies I have to handle now. The crew also agreed that to have an ATCO doing the Rt also added to their realism.

I feel so desperately out of touch with cockpit procedures now, I look forward to when FamFlights are available for us, in the meantime it is about a year since any Pilot visited my unit and all our airspace has changed, we keep sending invites but nobody seems to respond.

[Jetstream Rider]

I am a pilot, have visited LATCC and D&D and a few other ATC places both when I had a licence and before. Certainly helps, especially when some colleagues come out with some of the old chestnuts about Controllers jobs. I am keen to visit Heathrow Tower (just moved bases to Heathrow) and keep meaning to pop in to enquire as to what I need to do or make an appointment. The problem seems to me that ideas like STANDTO's which show surprise at being allowed are too prevalent (sp?). Any controller is welcome on my jumpseat or sim ride (subject to the rules!), and I hope I am welcome in the tower/area control as well (as long as I behave!). Long may that continue. There is no space for them and us in any industry, especially not ours.

[Gonzo]

Jetstream Rider, send me a PM with your email address.

[Jaun Huw Nose]

I would recommend the ATC tour to any pilot,I've done LATCC twice and a visit to my local tower proved most worth while....;)
I have suggested to our training manager that ATC be allowed on sim rides but got a definate NO, a pity as it helps us both understand the others job and so hopefully make it easier!

[Random Electron]

Hmmmm..

Some interesting posts here.

I have been LHS in a B757 operation at LGW for some ten years now, and the only non company fam. riders I have ever had in all that time have been from the West Sussex Police Anti Terrorist squad, from the Gatwick Airport Station!

I would love the oportunity to entertain some ATCO's on the flight deck. The system does allow for it, I'm sure. A formal approach to any company DFO would bring a result, just ask.