PPL to fATPL

[VFR800]

I know this subject's probably been done before and before anyone flame's me for asking, everyone's circumstances are different, hence the reason for asking for some advice.

I (like virtually everyone else on this forum) want to become a commercial pilot, I'm 36 so I know I'll be lucky to end up flying camels to Katmandu, but that's not the point....

I'm in process of finishing my PPL and my plan is to get 100 hours P1 by hour building in the US of A in time to begin my CPL next summer. I'm self-employed and can only afford a maximum of a month or 2 off work during any 12 month period.

What is the best route to go down re getting the fATPL? Is it possible and does anyone do, say a month's intensive groundschool for ATPL exams and a month's course for the CPL/IR?

Also, is it worth doing an IMC if one intends to do an IR, or is it a pre-requisite?

I've asked instructors, pilot friends and everyone come's up with a different route, so more advice might help me determine the best way to go.

Many thanks for your help dudes. :D

[FlyingForFun]

VFR800 - I'm in a similar situation. Not self-employed, but can only take a limited amount of time off work each year. Here's how I'm doing it:

First of all, when I made the decision to go for the fATPL, it was summer 2001 and I already had a PPL and about 70 hours. I was very fortunate to be made redundant at this point.

While out of work, I did some serious hour-building - 2 months (Dec 2001/Jan 2002) in the States, logged about 100 hours. I now pretty much had all the minimum hours requirements taken care of - I planned on continuing to fly, for my own enjoyment, on weekends, and this would bring my hours up the required levels without any extra thought.

When I got back from the States, I found myself a new job, and also started working on a Distance Learning course.

My annual leave in 2002 was taken up with the brush-up and exams for module 1 - total time needed, 14 (working) days. I carried 4 days holiday over to 2003.

My annual leave in 2003 will be split into two parts. In Jan/Feb, I took a further 14 days leave to do the module 2 brush-up and exams. In November, I will be going to Florida to do a single-engine CPL, taking 18 days leave (3 weeks for the CPL, and a few days spare "just in case"). The reason for Florida is because my timescales don't allow for any weather-related delays, and this is the only way I can achieve this. Also in 2003, I've got myself an IMC rating, having two lessons each weekend for a couple of months. This is useful for people in our position... keep reading.

The plan for 2004 is to use my annual leave for an IR. However, I think I'd be unlikely to get enough time off work in one block to be able to do a JAR IR comfortably. Hence the IMC. Although IMC hours don't count towards the JAR IR, they do count towards an FAA IR. So the plan is to take two blocks of holiday in 2004. For the first block, I will go to the States and do an FAA IR. Can't remember the exact rules, but it's something like 45 hours, of which at least 20 must be an approved course, and the rest can be anything you like. (I may have the numbers wrong.) So the IMC work I did for my PPL, as well as the IMC course, and any IMC flying I've done since getting the IMC rating, all count - and I hope to be able to complete the rest of the hours in 3 weeks. Then, later in the year, I will convert this to a JAR IR, which requires a minimum of 15 hours - I hope to be able to complete this in 2 weeks.

The plan for 2005 is to look at the market, and depending on what type of jobs are available, either get a flying instructor rating, or a multi-engine rating, before looking for work.

I think the timescales I've set myself are achievable. I've allowed more than enough time for the flying aspects. The whole thing will take several years, but since the market is so bad at the moment anyway, there's no particular rush. The only thing I can think of which might slow you down with this approach (thankfully, I've already passed this particular hurdle) is if you don't manage first-time passes in all the exams.

I hope that's useful, and that you can adapt it to your situation!

FFF
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[VFR800]

FFF,

Thanks very much for the advice, it always good to see how someone else is doing it! :)

[avrodamo]

RVR,
This is my plan of action. which is about 60% complete now! I got my PPL in Oct 2000 after having a compensation payout. I had always intended to go along the route of getting a commercial pilots licence, so like yourself i went through Prune, and asked all the people i knew.
I started my ATPL theory in Apr 2001. I have 2 children, wife, all the usual that goes along with it, and i work a 12 hour shift pattern. The studying was a real hard slog, for the whole family. There is no way i could have done it all without the support of my wife. Im sure it would have destroyed many relationships. I studied all weekends off, every evening from about 9pm to 1 or 2am (found that was when i studied best!) when i was not working. You have got to have total commitment at this point or forget it. Im no genius. Without absolute dedication in this area you will stumble here. I see loads of posts where people casually say "I will get all my ATPL's this year". It's really, really difficult.
Next i went back to the US and did my night and multi ratings in the US in October 2001.
In Mar 2002 i did my groundschool for 2 weeks, and sat my first 7 exams on Apr 2002. I got all these first time. I then made what i consider a bit of an error. I decided to take 2 months out from studying for my next 7. Big Mistake!!...when i went to start back in the study it was a killer. The brain knew what was comimg, and was none to keen. I should have got straight back into it. Took about 4 weeks to get really back into it again. I did my groundschool again for 2 weeks in Feb 2003, and my last 7 exams in Mar 2003, getting them all again first time!
Next stage for me was to secure the cash for the CPL/IR. I am in the very fortunate position of having quite a bit of equity in the house, so its all secured on the house. I spent quite a few months trawling around the schools, and finally got my CPL/IR booked back to back for 3 months in Sep 2003. I have managed to obtain a leave period from work of 3 months paid leave. I had to through all my time owing, banked rest days, annual leave, etc etc into the pot to gain enough time. For such an intensive course i believe it would be very difficult to do it with a few days here, and a few days there. In your position i would consider now looking at how you could possibly secure an extended leave period.
At the minute im waiting to start some CPL consolidation work in Aug 2003, so im up with it when i start my CPL.
Hope this helps!!;)

[No. 2]

FFF - You mention that you did some hour building Dec/Jan in the states. Am I right in thinking that that was done in California and if so what's the weather like that time of year for VFR?

Thanks,

No. 2

[FlyingForFun]

No 2 - no, it was in Arizona. I did fly to California, and then fly out again two days later, but I couldn't really comment on the weather that far west.

As for Arizona, in the two months I was there, I had to cancel three flights. One was a cross-country where the cross-wind at my destination was out of the aircraft's limits - I could have flown locally, but didn't. The next was a mountain cross-country where the cloud base was below the tops of the mountains - again, I could have flown locally, but didn't. And the other flight I had to cancel was an aerobatic flight where the cloud-base was too low for aeros (well, certainly for a complete novice like me) - again, I could have done just about any other kind of flying if I wanted. The temperatures were similar to a cool British summer - I thought it was very pleasant, but the locals didn't understand how I could fly a Super Cub with the windows open when it was so cold! I doubt you could find much better weather anywhere.

Hope that helps,

FFF
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[onehunga]

I too have a a very similar game pan to those above. Burnt 100 hours in Florida around Dec 2001 to get the necessary time. Self employed as well but am fortunate (or unfortunate) in that I contract so I can take time off as required. Plan on doing more hours out in LA in Sept. Taking the g/f along for fun as well and hopefully should get in around 50 hours which will all help. BTW - 32 years young.

Presently over half way through the IMC which I think is just fab. The accuracy of my flying has come along leaps and bounds and in my opinion it just has to make your time in the air all that more productive and not to mention safer. After doing the PPL I was very very very average on instruments having only done the bare minimum required. Now I feel so much more confident to fly approaches, track to and from nav aids etc. Will make the hour building so much more useful as I intend to use instruments whenever I can although clearly the IMC priviledges won't be valid in the US.

As for the ATPL's I hate em and to be honest haven't made to much headway into them as yet although that is the next part of the game plan.

Good luck

FFF - if you do the IR in a single will you then have to redo the skill test once you have your multi?

[FlyingForFun]

If you do the IR in a single will you then have to redo the skill test once you have your multi?Yes, that's my understanding. Not sure exactly what you'd have to do, whether it's a complete test or just the engine-out stuff or whatever, I'm sure LASORS will give full details, but I'm also sure it will have changed before I get that far! :D

FFF
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[LFS]

If you complete your IR in a S/E aircraft you will have to complete a minimum further 5 hours M/E IR training plus another complete IR test it is much simpler and cheaper to just do the IR on the multi in the first place. In fact, the most sensible option is to do the CPL on the Multi, it works out cheaper in the long run. Also the 15 hour conversion is a bare minimum and most people will need more unless they have significant IFR experience.