BALPA a waste of money?

[Classic]

Does anyone else think that the 1% we pay to BALPA is a waste of money?

Do we need a glossy magazine, a credit card, and loads of different company councils all negotiating wildly different agreements?




(Oh and I must really remember to logoff when I use public computers)

[MaximumPete]

You have the choice!

There are other unions out there who will accept pilots e.g. TGWU

MP;)

[Meeb]

If you are paying 1% then you are in a company with recognition.

As has been said many times, Balpa are only as good as those who help in the company council. If your CC is not doing its job, why not get involved instead of whinging from the sidelines...?

Just thank yourself that you are in a company who sees the benefit from having union recognition, there are a few companies out there who see unions as some form of militant subversants... :rolleyes:

[Hand Solo]

Just wait until you're ringing them up for urgent legal advice at 6am from a foreign country, they'll be worth every penny then.

[maxy101]

If the rep in charge of the legal fund decides your case is worth fighting.....what did happen to the alleged missing money?

[StressFree]

Balpa - a waste if money?

Of course it is, I'm surprised this topic has come up again. Myself and colleagues all joined and all then left after only a short period............. It really was a total waste of time and money. Its wrong to believe that you will get instant full legal cover, its at their discretion if they think the case warrants it.



:suspect:

[FlapsOne]

StressFree

What exactly did you want in that "short period of time"?

Most legal firms will assess the case before taking it on - so what;s the difference?

[Anthony Carn]

Balpa are only as good as those who help in the company council.
Spot the weak link, everybody !

Self interest.

Management aspirations.

Management plant ?

Management mole ?

Vulnerable to threats.

Frequent rotation of personnel.

Amateurish.

Lack of training.

Lack of experience.

Full time, demanding, job to hold down.

Zero reward.

Head office "support".


Great system ! :rolleyes:

[inverted-flik]

Was paying my dues to Balpa for over five years when one day I needed some legal advise regarding an incident at work, FOUR MONTHS later and many many requests by phone for advise/guidence I did recieve a call from Balpa, they were inquiring as to why I had just cancelled my subscription !!!!!:mad:

TGWU soon sorted the problem out :ok:

[Diesel]

Anthony,

Surely your list applies to any job staffed by democratically elected personnel.

Sounded like a job description for a government minister to me.

Diesel

[Anthony Carn]

Quote -- "Sounded like a job description for a government minister to me."

I rest my case, m'lud. ;)

[ducksoup]

Back to the topic

In my experience, which goes back to the 60s, it always has been and it always will be.

Save your hard earned cash for some thing useful.

[StressFree]

FlapsOne,
Duh???????
You dont seem to understand the problem? What if you bought car insurance and had a crash a week later and they told you sorry but we're not sure if you're covered - some insurance!!!!
I realise that all cases are different but when the :mad: hits the fan having some rep telling you that they need to think about it just isn't good enough for 1% of my hard earned cash............

The MSF section of AMICUS(TGWU affiliate) for £9 per month is FAR better value in my opinion. I'm amazed anyone still sticks with Balpa whos outside BA. :cool:

[kinsman]

BALPA have been very good in the past, most of us enjoy our current working conditions because of BALPA. That said in recent years they have lost the plot!

I have found them to be the tail trying to wag the dog on more than one occasion. They have forgotten rule number one, they work for the membership not the other way around!

I am still a member but may not be for much longer!

[FlapsOne]

Stress

That decision is not made by some 'rep' as you put it.

It's made by the legal dept - as with any case you take to any lawyer.

If a decision were made not to 'back' the case it would have nothing to do with not being covered, as you put it. It would have more to do with not having a reasonable case to begin with.

If you want a lawyer that will take any case - and your money - regardless of the probable outcome, then there are plenty of backstreet lawfirms who would be happy for the business.

I still can't understand how you made your decision in, as you quote, a short period of time. Did they not take a case of yours?

[StressFree]

Flaps,
No I've never had a case for Balpa to refuse, our problem was different. The company wanted us to fly two totally different jet types AND operate in the left and right seat ie. 4 different crew positions for each pilot to fly in............... The firm would not agree that their proposal was unreasonable so we had to consult the Balpa technical committee for a professional analysis of the situation and a judgement which we could present to the firm.
Balpa didn't have a clue and failed miserably, they didn't know where to start. Some old boy there waffled on about 'flying a Chipmunk in the morning and a Nimrod in the afternoon without any problems' - very helpful comment........ My firm is a huge multi-national operating its own planes privately, when we consulted Balpa about us joining we were assured of full support even though we are a private operator. The fact was that they really didn't have a clue about corporate aviation but were happy to take the cash. Also trying to get a rep allocated to us proved extremely hard, no-one wanted to take us on.
In the end the safety issues involved with the firms proposal caused them to drop the matter and after such a bad start to our membership we all dropped Balpa.....................

[ducksoup]

If it's legal insurance you're after, go to an insurance company.

If it's a union, go to a union.

[Mr Strapp]

FOR YOUR INFORMATION BALPA ARE INVOLVED IN SOME WAY WITH 5 PILOTS SACKED OR ABOUT TO BE IN LOGANAIR, TWO OF WHICH ARE NOT MEMBERS.GET REAL IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU AND BALPA AND THE IPA IS ALL YOU'VE GOT KID

[ducksoup]

Mr Strapp,
Firstly, it's rude to shout.
You will doubtless find that some Balpa members will not be totally pleased to find that thier hard-earned subs are to be used on non-members. Just watch!
As I said, if you want an insurance company, get one and the other policy holders won't make a fuss either.

[StressFree]

Ducksoup,
You keep mentioning 'if you want an insurance company get one' -what do you really think most pilots join Balpa for? Is it for that excuse for a magazine called The Log or for the insurance scheme? Are you actually in this business? I've never met anyone (outside BA) who wanted anything from Balpa except the insurance................................ I'm surprised you seem to think otherwise.

:confused:

[ducksoup]

StressFree
Sorry if I am not making myself clear. Balpa use the 'free insurance' as a hook for their recruitment outside BA. The insurance they offer is entirely discretionary on their part and all I am pointing out is that there is equally good aviation proffesional indemnity insurance available at a much reduced rate than 1% of salary.
I am led to believe that some BA pilots who have become disenchanted with Balpa use this scheme. I might say that I have nothing to do with this, although I have met the two BM pilots who started it and I also believe that the IPA did or do use this scheme.
I used to be a member of Balpa, some years ago and believe that most pilots outside BA have fallen for their chat up line re insurance. The point I am making is that there is a good, much cheaper alternative. That's all.

[icemaiden]

Interesting replies, (and no I am not a pilot and no not affiliated with the airlines or with the unions).

as a point of interest what do BALPA members think of the representation that US pilots receive? Is ALPA that different?

[beardy]

BALPA is not an organisation of faceless individuals, it is an associaton of members. Their skill and expertise (other than in legal cases) comes, principally, from their members. Membership, IMHO, confers duties to add to the collective knowledge and to operate in conjunction with other like minded, committed, people. There are some who pay their dues and expect a magic wand, it doesn't work like that, you only get out what you and others put in.

In comparison to large trade unions the cost to the individual is high, because it is a small association that has many of the same fixed overheads (admin support etc.) However it does pull well above it's weight in political lobbying and with dealings with employers, their organisations, government and regulatory bodies.

If you can't be bothered to become involved, don't join. I don't want my association to become lethargic because it has to spoon feed those with little motivation. However if you do want our profession to advance and to defend, and improve, terms and conditions of work, safety culture and environment sign up and let's get on with it.

[Anthony Carn]

The difficulty ducksoup is having in attempting to make his point demonstrates some amazing truths - apathy, sheep mentality and stupidity. Go with the flock. Don't use your brain to come to the obvious conclusion. "I can't be bothered." Thinking independently seems to be strangely difficult for pilots sometimes. One wonders how they ever got into flying, given these characteristics.

Let's try a repeat. If it worked for Pavlov......

If legal protection is all that you're after, then there are much cheaper alternatives to BALPA.



Another problem -- some colleagues are still in BALPA, despite agreeing that it's useless, because it involves cancelling a direct debit, writing to BALPA to resign and writing to apply for the alternative. "Oh, I'll do it....tomorrow." I kid you not ! Many other organisations rely upon this sort of apathy to generate their profits.



Despite all of the above, if you want to change working conditions, salaries etc for the better, then join BALPA and pitch in there !
You'll then discover how useless the Company Council system is for yourself !

[beardy]

So go on try it, discover the company council system for yourself, get elected (that is if a majority of your colleagues have decided that they want BALPA to be their sole representatives when your employer wants to talk terms and conditions.)

Don't just roll over with your legs in the air. Make a difference.

[MaximumPete]

beardy,

Been there, done it!

Don't know if we made any difference but it as sure as :mad: wasn't for the want of trying.

However negotiating with management is like going into a duel with a pistol full of blanks. People who do not have satisfaction and any hope of promotion become manageable by the unions and will come out on strike at the drop of a hat. That's why we have labour relations laws. Those of us that are fortunate enough to have jobs that we love, and 99.9.....% of pilots are in that category, tend to be less militant and less prone to strike.

There is always the exception to the rule. BA pilots in the 70s and80s?

Remember the bin-mens' strikes?

Fly happy

MP;)