Airside IDs & Five Years of References!

[The Potter]

I see that to obtain an airside pass in the UK you must now be able to supply five years of employment references, with no gaps in your work history; give two personal references from people who have known you for five years & also pass a criminal record check.

Does anyone else get the feeling that the authorities are taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut? If you have passed a criminal record check & you can supply employment references from your previous employer as well as a personal referee, then where on earth does the five year requirement fit in? Why not make it 10 years, or how about no gaps since you left school! I think that many people are going to lose potential jobs over this one, particularly our colleagues from the wannabe forums who may have gaps in their employment history because they were training, waiting for courses, working cash in hand etc. & what about the guys & gals who have spent time travelling abroad?

I know that we must take security issues seriously but this seems an illogical step to take but, as usual, an easy one to implement for the authorities & we all know that they must be seen to be doing something. Any thoughts on this one?

:8

[Red Four]

Isn't it just for 'Restricted Area' DfT designated areas, rather than all airside passes?

[fireflybob]

Never mind the wannabes, there are some more mature fellow pilots out here who have considerable gaps in their employment history!

I would have thought this edict, if true, breaks certain aspects of the European rules concerning employment etc.

[Alberts Growbag]

DETRA have decided that from the 1st of July this year you will need to produce a 'Basic Disclosure Certificate' to accompany any airside ID application to a UK airport.

This means that you (or your employer) will have to seek one from a company called DisclosureScotland who will have the sole rights to provide it.

A 'Basic' disclosure will involve providing a certificate listing any unspent criminal convictions that you still have outstanding under the Rehabliltation of offenders act 1974. This works on the sentence you got, not what you did. If your conviction is unspent, and is one that is prohibited by DETRA (Which is just about anything covering violence and dishonesty) your application will be refused by the airport authority. Thus without the ability to gain airside access you will lose your job, even if your employer is happy with your past.

There is no proposal as far as I am aware to provide five years history and references, but that is up to the individual airport authority. Thus I would not be surprised to see some overzealous manager decide that it's a good idea. However at present it is not a DETRA requirement.

BALPA reckon that many pilots will now lose their jobs due to the fact that any prison sentence of over two and half years is never able to be spent. Thus those that maybe did something twenty or thirty years ago in their youth, may now have their careers recked by some kneejerk reaction by the DofT.

BALPA are fighting this from the civil rights front, and many of you would be well advised to write to your MP's complaining that not too many suicide bombers live long enough to get criminal records to check up on!!

Oh and of course they have removed acts of homosexualty and sex with animals from the list, so along with the fact that death by dangerous driving is OK, then you can roger a sheep whilst driving around the M25 on a Friday afternoon killing hundreds in the ensuing pile up. But that's New Labour for you I guess!


:(

[HZ123]

The disclosure cert will cost you £14.00 but with all this new aviation work I am sure they will soon increase the cost.

Surely no one should have any concerns providing they tell the truth at the outset.

[sky9]

I wonder if members of the current Government would pass the test? I would have thought that at least 6 would have fairly thick files with the Intelligence Agencies as former Communists and fellow travellers.

[The Potter]

I am aware fo the 'Basic Disclosure Certificate' & you are correct HZ123 if you have nothing to hide then it's just a formality. My concern is with the need to supply five years of references without any gaps.

For example this quote taken from Brittania's website:-

"Please note that regulations issued by BAA airports for a security ID pass are as follows:

Five years employment references without any gaps."

Therefore if you cannot supply the said references then you cannot be employed by any airline that is based at a BAA airport because, quite simply, you will be unable to get an airside pass!
How many of us have worked for now defunct companies? Please remember that they are looking for five years without any gaps, how easy would it be to get a reference from a company that has ceased trading? The crazy situation is made ridiculous when you consider that you can obtain an airside ID from a non BAA airport & you then have the right to go airside on a BAA airport!

Any security measures that help to keep us safe & to boost the confidence of the fare paying public should be welcomed but this is just another hurdle aimed at the very people who keep the aviation industry going in the UK. It has made it more difficult both to get your first break into commercial aviation & to change employer. I get the feeling that they must be seen to be doing something, whatever that something may be. :mad:

[Le Pen]

In FRA you need to give 10 years worth of history to get an airside pass. Good huh??

[PAXboy]

Is this change anything to do with the (rumoured) person who was selling boarding passes and getting people onto the ramp?

May just be an urban myth but hear the other day that someone was done for this, charging several thousand for each person. Since it was supposed to happen at LHR, it may well not be true. On the other hand, stranger things have happened at LHR ...:p

[You splitter]

The crazy situation is made ridiculous when you consider that you can obtain an airside ID from a non BAA airport & you then have the right to go airside on a BAA airport!

Not true I'm afraid. The DTR directive was issued to most airports and aerodromes in the U.K. I have the list but it is far too long to repeat here.

To clarify a few other points:
The directive is in force as from JUL this year. However a years grace is granted for exisiting pass holders to complete the Criminal record check. So us Guys with passes have until JUL 04 to get this sorted.

With regards to the 5 year history see the extract below:

In order to retain or apply for a full pass an exisiting or new employee shall be required to complete and sign the pass application form giving details of his education,training and employment during the preceding 5 years or since the age of 16, whichever is the shorter period

This could well pose a problem for some. However it does not say how many you must have or that you would be penalised for having a years gap between two. That needs some clarification.

My opinon? Instead of wasting money on extra staff to plough through this paperwork how about extra staff to actually check out the references they already have!

:ok:

[Thoroughly Nice Bloke...]

Hi all,

Does anyone have the contact details for DETRA...? I've tried www.detra.gov.uk with no luck.

Thanks in advance


TNB

[You splitter]

TNB. Try the following link:

www.transec.dft.gov.uk (http://www.transec.dft.gov.uk)

[Localiser Green]

"In FRA you need to give 10 years worth of history to get an airside pass."

What so a 19 year old baggage handler / cabin crew / pilot has to provide references from the age of 9?!

I can just see it now, asking my primary school teachers to prove my work history!

[Herod]

Try this one: twenty plus years with employer A, including over ten years with a BAA pass. leaving to join employer B who operates from another BAA airport. All references taken up OK. HOWEVER, I then left employer A some three weeks before joining employer B. New references were required, to cover the "missing" three weeks. And no, I hadn't spent those three weeks in Afghanistan, Iraq, North Korea......... All now sorted, I look forward to July 2004 when presumably it will all have to be gone through again.

[Waggon rut]

For the record there is NO basic disclosure at the moment only Standard/Exten which lists everything anybody has done spent on unspent. So the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 means nothing any more.

[saffron]

basic disclosure was available from disclosure scotland from 1/4/03 lists only unspent convictions not all of which are disqualifying

[Unwell_Raptor]

The new requirements may be a pain in the butt, but they are necessary, and overdue.

Many cleaners and ground handlers are immigrants, and many of those have been using false IDs. The new checks are starting to filter these out - I have seen a man of Asian origin who produced a forged passport and a fraudulently obtained driving licence to obtain his ID at a Very Big Airport.

So how would you fancy the knowledge that some of the people working in and around your aircraft are recent arrivals in the UK who are under a false ID? It's a bit like asking for trouble isn't it?

Sorry, but security is a pain, and always will be, but while there are people out there trying to kill you, it will have to be endured.

[Smokie]

I have also heard that if for example, you work for Airline XXX, and the current pass you hold then expires; you have to re-apply for another pass and go through the whole rigmarole anyway, regardless if you have worked for them in excess of the
"5 years"or not.

This opens a very lage can of worms I suppose, depending on what offences are on "The List" and as a previous poster has already stated, so much for the rehabilitation of offenders act 1974.

There is always the European Court of Human Rights I guess.
I'm sure they will deem a spent conviction as just that, otherwise there could be a lot of new openings for newbies/wannabes. :confused:

[chiglet]

I have worked at Manch for 33 years, [for the same Co,{CAA/NATS} and now have to take my passport/Co.reference/NI.no for my [re]new[ed] pass. The mind Bogless:mad:
At least, the Co pay for my [lack of] criminal past:rolleyes:
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

[604guy]

In Canada you also go through a criminal records check with no restriction as to only going back a certain number of years. You also have to provide all relevent information on your parents, your spouse and your spouse's parents. But this was the case even prior to 9/11. Most of it was a result of Air India 18 years ago.

[maxy101]

Of course, most of the recent arrivals to the UK will not have a UK criminal record. They should sail through any UK background checks.

[Waggon rut]

I say again there is NO BASIC disclosure available just the standard/Enhanced which is the whole nine yards. Clearly this is in breech of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 & Data Protection Act 1998 and has absolutely nothing to do with, loading bags on a plane, and I quote:-

"In order to meet the CRB’s seminal aim of protecting the vulnerable there are two levels of checking designed to safeguard jobs or posts that involve working with children or vulnerable adults. These are designated Standard Disclosure and Enhanced Disclosure"

From the Disclosure web site.

[Pub User]

Waggon Rut

I think you've missed something on the website. The following is a direct cut & paste:

"Criminal Record Checks for Airside Passes

In April 2003, Disclosure Scotland were asked by the Department for Transport to make the Basic Disclosure Service available to everyone who requires an airside pass at a UK airport. This is in response to new procedures and as the Basic Disclosure is not available anywhere else in the UK at the moment, Disclosure Scotland were happy to accomodate this request. .......... "

[You splitter]

Basic disclosure from Disclosure Scotland is indeed available. Mine arrived this moning. Happy to say I am a Saint with a very boring past!:}

[Waggon rut]

Pub User

I stand corrected

just like me to not read half of it.

"that's why I cant get the V/S button to work!"

[Departures Beckham]

Smokie is correct about the change of companies. I finished working for one handling agent at STN on sunday, and started training with another on monday. I visited the ID unit on monday to get my pass re-issued in the name of my new employer (with exactly the same airside access); only to be told that I need the criminal record check PLUS five-year background check. Surely by having an airside pass to start with they were happy with my background, why does changing employer make me any less safe?

I finish my week long classroom-based training tomorrow .... I then cannot work (and therefore will not be paid) until BAA are satisfied that between sunday 23:59 and monday 00:01 I did not become a risk.

Not to impressed with them right now. Oh, and a period of unemployment is being covered by getting a friend to sign a statement confirming that I was unemployed (because terrorists don't have friends!).

[maxy101]

what a farce....Still at least they´re doing all these background checks in Europe aren´t they?

[Sliding member]

I'd like to be constuctive but its a load of bollocks fo bollocks sake. Unwell_Raptor wrote:

Sorry, but security is a pain, and always will be, but while there are people out there trying to kill you, it will have to be endured

Only person trying to kill us is Mr Blair:mad:

I must lie down now:( :yuk: :E

[mono]

Another item for unwell_raptor,

The disclosure requirements do not apply to foreign nationals (they are after all unlikely to have a UK criminal record) so Osama's cousin could get an airside job before say, Departures Beckham.

We are of course all aware of the percentage of UK nationals that are currently cleaning/catering a/c.

What a load of :mad:

[Departures Beckham]

So if foreign nationals do not require any form of criminal record check, is the government being racist? Are they suggesting that as a British national I am more likely to be a threat than a non-Brit?

Maybe I should apply in the name of Monsieur Departures Le Beckham.