FLYBE takes off from Exeter [Archive]

Buster the Bear

26th Jun 2003, 23:10

FLYBE TAKES OFF

26 Jun 2003 12:23

FLYBE is set to continue its rapid expansion by confirming Exeter Airport as its fourth UK base.

The carrier is due to announce a host of new routes from the airport next month, believed to be to a range of Spanish destinations.

Ibiza, Malaga and Murcia, which the airline serves from Southampton, are favourites to be launch destinations from the south west.

A number of new ski-focussed routes are also due to be unveiled from Birmingham and Southampton in time for the 2003 winter season.

The carrier is hoping to boost its current 3.6 million passengers a year on its network of 17 regional and 20 international destinations.

alterego

28th Jun 2003, 19:10

I must be confused as Exeter is FLY Be's home!

Don't they have all their offices and engineering there? Doesn't the MD work there? As JEA they flew from there. Now we have NEW news that they fly from there.

Wow. This is hot.

Perhaps it is a try of some new routes but as 'low cost' ops', not a new base.

akerosid

28th Jun 2003, 20:18

Any truth in the rumour that they are seriously looking at 318/319s as a 146 replacement?

Is there a timeline in place for an order (of these or other similarly sized aircraft) or introduction of new types.

MerchantVenturer

28th Jun 2003, 20:37

It is news, albeit the rumour has been around for several weeks, that Flybe are about to develop some sort of network from Exeter. At present they fly to Dublin, Jersey and Guernsey, plus a Saturday flight to Belfast from EXT. Apart from the Scilly Skybus that is the total of EXT's scheduled services.

The SouthWest Regional Development Agency (SWRDA) has recently been involved in backing an independent report looking at air travel services in the far south west (Devon/Cornwall) which are pretty poor at present.

A company called aviasolutions looked at three options:

1. Continue with the present EXT, PLH and NQY airports and develop them as need arises.

2. Close PLH and concentrate on EXT and NQY.

3. Close EXT and PLH and build a new airport at South Hams, whilst leaving NQY to continue.

The report narrowly recommended option 2 but acknowledges that this is only an initial conclusion and recognises the detrimental affect it would have on the Plymouth area.

The situation is further complicated by the presence of BRS which, although not part of aviasolutions' brief, was stated last year by the SWRDA to be competing with EXT as the whole region's (not just Devon/Cornwall) main airport. The SWRDA went on to say that a decision on this will have to be made in the next fifteen years.

All very strange when one considers that BRS carried over 3.5 million pax last year (on track for 4 million this coming year) against EXT's 340,000, and aviasolutions report, endorsed by SWRDA, states that EXT is not likely to have more than 2.5 million pax by 2030 under options 1 or 2 above.

I would think that if Flybe can make a go of 'low cost' operations at EXT then the likes of NWI and HUY must soon be on somebody's list.

stalling attitude

28th Jun 2003, 21:02

it will only be compton abbas left soon without a lo coster, every airport will be trying it

MerchantVenturer

29th Jun 2003, 01:46

stalling attitude,

I have been suggesting this on various forums for the past twelve months but have stopped doing so for two reasons:-

1. It was suggested to me that I was anti low cost which I am not - I fly on them as often as I can.

2. More and more lo cos seem to be materialising so who am I to say it is wrong.

Doubtless the market will decide in the end, but in the meantime it is a good time to be a passenger.

alterego

1st Jul 2003, 02:06

The trouble with Low cost from EXT is the catchment area.

Penzance to EXT is a long drive, Plymouth needs close links to an Airport to thrive & North Devonians go along the link road to M5 and then to BRS.

Exeter suffered for too long with bad links to M5 ( now much improved) but no railway station nearby.

People in the region will never have the links required to make true low cost viable.

If FLYBE are going to try good luck. They know the area better than most.

jack-oh

1st Jul 2003, 05:35

Was Culdrose ever considered as a viable option for increasing civil aviation in the SW

Golf Charlie Charlie

1st Jul 2003, 05:52

Exeter Airport's location to the east of Exeter the city, I assume, is a disadvantage because it is even further from the catchment areas, small as they are, to the west. If you come up from the west as far as the east of Exeter, you may as well go on to Bristol. As already noted, the catchment area is not only too small but also too thinly distributed.

Stability Jane

1st Jul 2003, 16:14

To Spain on a Dash 8, should be interesting.

MerchantVenturer

1st Jul 2003, 18:48

jack-oh,

Newquay is not far from Culdrose so I would not imagine that there could be two airports in Cornwall. Isn't Culdrose a helicopter station? Not sure what runway(s) it has.

Wherever you put an airport in the far south west you will always face the problem of the catchment being too small.

Stability Jane,

I don't know whether FLYbe's rumoured services services from EXT to Spain will use Dash 8s or 146 jets. Either way the use of smaller aircraft than are usually associated with low cost operations might just work at EXT, although daily services might be too much.

I am intrigued that one of the rumoured destinations is Ibiza. Go tried this one from BRS in its first summer of operations there but dropped it thereafter because of poor loads. The thought of the
elderly generation, who make up a large proportion of Devon/Cornwall's leisure flyers, flocking to St Antonio for the night life beggars belief.

Whispering Giant

1st Jul 2003, 23:00

The rumured service to Spain will more than likely operate on the 146.:ok:

re the flight's to Ibizia - having just started operating this service from SOU in the last week - i can confirm that this is extreamly popular as is the AGP/GVA/BGY/DUB/BHD and MJV service with pax load's of well over 90% on every flight. :ok: :ok:

MerchantVenturer

2nd Jul 2003, 01:03

Whispering Giant,

Glad to hear that SOU appears to be doing so well, but of course it has a much bigger catchment area than EXT.

If Flybe do operate one or two routes not flown by easyJet from BRS they might well pick up a few pax from the Bristol area.

The Farmer

3rd Jul 2003, 00:24

Has this been released officially yet? There's nothing on the FlyBE website thus far [other than mention of Judge Jules opening up the SOU/IBIZA route with a jolly at Southampton.] Will Judy Spiers be doing the same at EGTE I wonder? Let's hope not.]

With rail fairs as laughable as they are, it would be nice to see a London route too. There's a huge market shurely in the South West - Bristol seems to do quite well, and they can't all be from the North?

LukeEGTE

3rd Jul 2003, 02:29

"With rail fairs as laughable as they are, it would be nice to see a London route too.

Apparently, VLM are considering a LCY service from EXT which would continue onwards to AMS. :ok:

Surely Flybe. should have started this service ages ago, but it now appears they have missed thier chance and will probably be very angry if VLM do well on the route.

MerchantVenturer

3rd Jul 2003, 04:45

The Farmer,

It really depends on what you think of as the south west. If merely Cornwall, Devon and south Somerset, the market is not all that big.

If you take the area that government deems to be the south west the area extends from northern Gloucestershire across to Wiltshire and Dorset and down to Cornwall and the Scilly Isles.

In that region the big market is in the north around Bristol and its hinterland and in the Bournemouth/Poole area.

That is why airports like Bristol, increasingly Southampton and probably Bournemouth in the near future are doing well. Furthermore, in the Bristol area for example if people cannot get a flight to a particular destination from Bristol Airport they have the larger Birmingham Airport just up the road and, if needs must, Heathrow which is hardly any further away than Exeter Airport.

That is why Exeter must really exist on its immediate Devon/Cornwall/ south Somerset market. It is unlikely to attract that many passengers from outside this immediate sub region.

When it does get a few more scheduled flights, as seem very likely, the citizens of Devon must support their main airport at Exeter. They have not done so in sufficient numbers in the past to make scheduled services viable.

The Farmer

3rd Jul 2003, 17:33

I worry you're right. In business down here I seem to constantly here people saying things along the lines of "if only there were a Sleazy Jet type based at Exeter offering the same sort of routes down here", but those wishes might not translate into enough bums on seats for the brave airline who made the jump. Someone made the point that the Go flight to Ibiza from Bristol died a death for too few numbers - perhaps the same would happen and even quicker down the road.

Travelling to London on the train has proved to be so painful of late it would be nice to have an alternative route. And it would be lovely to be able to head off to the obvious ports of call on mainland Europe too.

MerchantVenturer

3rd Jul 2003, 18:17

The Farmer,

Yes, it was me who mentioned the Go Fly route to IBZ from BRS. It didn't go that well - but I believe that Ibiza is not as popular as it once was amongst the young - that was the story put out at the time anyway, and from memory loco flights to IBZ from some other UK airports were dropped around that time.

As to EXT flights to the capital, many people have a theory that Exeter is just too close to London to be successful on flights to the capital, whereas Plymouth is that little bit further away.

Air Wales has recently started Swansea-Cardiff-London City. Now CWL is about the same distance from London as Exeter but South Wales has a bigger catchment than Devon. Having said this I don't know how the Air Wales flights from the Principality to London are making out in terms of pax numbers.

I hope that EXT can make a go of things on the scheduled front. My brother-in-law certainly does as he has recently moved to Devon.

Golf Charlie Charlie

3rd Jul 2003, 20:01

It's hard to see an Exeter to London service working for long, in my view, given that the road connections to the east are now not too bad and the train, while dire in some ways, makes up in other ways for not having the hassle of getting into London from whatever airport you arrive at. As for the business of the catchment area, you'd have thought enough people from Exeter and Devon/west Somerset as a whole would want to go to "London", but the problem is that a flight has to land in one of, shall we say, five airports, and who ever benefits from an airport to the north will not benefit from an airport to the south, or west versus east, and so on. So an individual service to any airport is not viable as much as anything because of the London area's fragmented airports. Nor are there unlikely to be many interlining possibilities onto other flights for the same reason. You might almost expect more success on a flight to Amsterdam or Frankfurt, where there is only one airport to go to, where connections with the city centres are better and above all where interlining possibilities are better because more services and airlines and concentrated at one airport. Maybe VLM could make it work.....

notice

5th Jul 2003, 09:23

flybe are bull-****ting for flogging but can't see any Dev. dev. (Exeter excreta) working out for obvious reasons such as:
-Market not large enough and, in any case, many are seniors or sheep-shaggers who won't want to leave home.
-Much of potential market likely to favour nearer airport or better/cheaper services....BRS SOU etc.
-London and Midlands are about 150 mins away by alternatives
-East Devon is not the same as South Wales, which has a much bigger market and a toll bridge and tunnels to travel to London.

On another fantasy: 'Exeter suffered for too long with bad links to M5 ( now much improved) but no railway station nearby'- sorry but, for over 100 years, Exeter has had 2 stations- both with London (Paddington and Waterloo) services.

MerchantVenturer

5th Jul 2003, 19:18

notice,

I think I agree with the thrust of your argument, although I would not have put it in such a colourful way.

I shall be very interested to see Flybe's destinations, frequency and aircraft type on their EXT flights to be announced soon. I would like to think that there will be support from the local populace, but would not bet my house on it.

As I see it that is one of the differences between easyJet and bmibaby. The former goes for daily, usually multi daily rotations to the same destination, whereas the baby sometimes goes for one rotation once, twice, thrice or four times a week. I fancy Flybe will be more like baby in this respect.

I prefer the easyJet approach to this particular aspect of low cost air travel scheduling.

Ace Rimmer

8th Jul 2003, 17:04

Funny thing this Exeter connectivity thing - I'm heading down there tomorrow - Rimmer News is naturally covering the the 'official' announcement (the airport jumped the gun and put out a release a couple weeks back)..funny how everybody wants to be negative the whole damn time. I'd have though new routes equal good news (making the bold assumption that they work...but you never know unless you try) But I digress.

The city has crap connectivity to the capital or it's environs. I looked into the surface alternatives to get to TE in time for the meetings.
I'd need to either go down tonight and stay over or get a train from Paddington at 0600 - cept there's no way I can get from Casa Rimmer to Paddington in time I've got stuff on tonight as well so that dosent work...

OK so I could drive. The consensus of opinon round here is that I should allow 4 and a half hours drive time each way (either M23/M25/M3/A303) or A24/A27/A36/A303 or the route that follows the coast sorta Bridgeport way) Whichever, that's NINE hours driving (and I'd need to set off very early indeed).

So what am I gonna do? I'm gonna fly - using the SWAG (Scientific Wild-A$$ed Guess) method about an hour or so each way. A lot quicker AND let's face it a LOT more fun not only that but I've got a good excuse for claiming it on expenses.....result.

But if there was a service between say LCY and Exeter chances are I'd be on it they have to be charging a significant day trip fare to make the self fly option financially viable...

OK not everybody has this range of options but consider the punter from south Devon heading for the smoke for the day riding on the train for 3 hours (assuming no delays) or a 40 or so minute flight (at D8/ATR speeds) to LCY hmmm looks like the train is going to have to be significantly cheaper before it starts to look the better option. Not enough traffic? I reckon more than a 200 folks a day travel between London and South Devon that would also have the price elasiticity to be up for the airline alternative. It seems to me if you have a 30-50 seat T/P that's all you'd need to have a nice little earner on a twice daily...just a thought...

MerchantVenturer

8th Jul 2003, 18:07

Ace Rimmer,

There is sometimes a fine line between pragmatism and negativity.

It is a fact that past experience shows that EXT to London has not worked. Now that many more people in recent years have become air-orientated for internal UK travel I think it is worth another try.

But what any carrier must do is advertise. There is frequently a sustainable market but the marketing is often poorly focussed or not even focussed at all when it comes to new routes.

If VLM, or whoever, does start a link to LCY from EXT they have to ensure that their potential customers know about it. Most people are not interested in aviation per se, unlike most of us in these forums, and will not automatically read items in the press just because they are related to aviation, even to their local aviation.

If they don't get the marketing right the venture will fail because EXT does not have a catchment area big enough to ensure that enough people will drift onto the service almost by accident.

I hope you have a great day in Devon.

Ace Rimmer

8th Jul 2003, 21:36

MV Absolutely - advertising is the name of the game these days (well it probably always was) and you can be sure that whichever airline starts up a service to wherever will be looking for support in this from the airport who in turn will doubtless be asking the Devlopment board to pony up the loot.

VLM eh? Don't they have a code share deal with FlyBE? Any road up, all will be revealed tomorrow (well maybe).

LGWAlan

9th Jul 2003, 20:03

The EXT routes have now been announced.
FlyBE are set to serve:
ALC - 4 X W
BHD - 1 X D
DUB - 1 X D
EDI - 1 X D
GLA - 1 X D
GCI - 3 X D (1 VIA JER)
JER - 3 X D (2 VIA GCI)
AGP - 1 X D

from www.flybe.com

Not sure yet what a/c types will be involved for what routes - the AGP will certainly be 146 operated as the DH4 does not have the legs top get to AGP. I would guess also that the ALC will also be 146 operated. I can see 1 or 2 x 146 and 2 or 3 DH4 being based at EXT for this lot.

Grecian

9th Jul 2003, 20:24

Did you miss Murcia off the list?
You have five but BBC Radio Devon mentioned 6 new routes.:ok:

LGWAlan

9th Jul 2003, 20:33

fair point Grecian. The homepage on their website also lists MJV - but nothin in terms of timetables yet. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Grecian

9th Jul 2003, 20:42

Aaaaah! The press release mentions that all routes are bookable now except Murcia. For some reason we have to wait until November to do that.

MerchantVenturer

9th Jul 2003, 20:48

Do a test booking for MJV on the flybe site and you will find that the route cannot be booked until November. Nothing about frequency though.

The total of five new routes is correct isn't it?
AGP, ALC, MJV, EDI and GLA. They commence next March.

The others are being flown already aren't they, albeit the BHD will be increased to daily from the present Sat only, again from next March.

I still do not understand why, if they are going to have services to EDI and GLA, they are not at least twice daily - one early morning and one in the early evening. Once a day is no good for business pax not wanting to overnight in Scotland, or for Scottish business pax wanting a quick visit to the Exeter area.

Anyway, that's a small moan and if the Scottish routes do well on once a day doubtless flybe will be looking to increase frequencies. My main sentiment is one of congratulation to flybe for at last giving Devon residents the chance of a fair number of scheduled services at last. I just hope they use them.

I shall be interested also to see if my local field at BRS can maintain its seemingly never-ending rise now that it will be surrounded by low cost rivals at CWL, SOU, EXT and almost certainly BOH in the near future. There is now a hell of choice for us in this area because BHX is not far away, neither is LHR for that matter.

sugarbird

10th Jul 2003, 04:00

At the press con at Exeter today flyBE's charismatic MD announced

- a "new investment model" was being investigated
- evaluations on Airbus/Boeing aircraft had bene started and would be complete this winter
- another new base would be announced next spring, where I wonder could they have in mind?

To clear up a few points from ealrier posts the Belfast and Glasgow rotations are inbound aircraft. With a slight re-jig of the schedules one 146 coul operate the early am Malaga, the early afternoon Edinburgh and the evening Alicante without too much difficulty. Murcia sales will start once slots have been awarded. JF was confident these would be obtained.

MerchantVenturer

10th Jul 2003, 04:32

sugarbird,

Could the likes of EXT support a 737 or 319 on the frequencies announced today?

If the new flybe base is to be in the UK I go for NWI. Apart from BHX flybe seems to be going for the smallest regional airports like SOU and EXT, so NWI would be logical from a geographical point of view. Also it has no loco service at all at present.

CaptAirProx

11th Jul 2003, 18:14

The Dash does'nt have the legs to get to AGP? Well from my experience it has a longer endurance and overall range than the 146. It would suffer tho with the fact its a prop and would take possibly 15mins longer.

Why have they changed the 146-300 to a 200 on SOU to the sun? Hmmmmmm.

Whispering Giant

12th Jul 2003, 18:40

The reason it has changed to a 146-200 from a 146-300 in SOU was down to performance limitations of the 146-300. We could only carry a total of 99 pax's on 146-300 on a warm day and be able to get off the rwy - hence changing to a 146-200 where we do not have to offload pax's in order to make the perfomance requirement's.

Brgds
W.G. :ok:

Smokie

12th Jul 2003, 18:46

£0.07p/hour......(taxed)...nice one ! :rolleyes:

At the end of the day................it's midnight !

Whispering Giant

13th Jul 2003, 21:34

Grecian the reason for the delay on the Murcia route is because as yet the slot's need to be allocated by the airport - the reason for the delay is that Murcia San Javier airport is primarily a military airbase and is only available to civil flight's for a limited period each day when the base is not being used for military ops. Hence we are at the mercy of the military who control all movement's and in and out and need to fit in with their requirement's.

hope this helps.

brgds
W.G