Baby move

[owc]

I have heard a whisper that bmi baby may move from bfs to bhd when the runway at bhd has been resurfaced, how likley is this is the city allowed to operate 737.

[eastern wiseguy]

B737'S have been periodic visitors to the city over the years ...It would appear that there is no reason for them not to operate.What might scupper the plan is the number of pax through the terminal building which DOES have a cap on it and its' early closing .The other operator of B73's is Ryanair...but you have assured us OWC(whose initials mean nothing to me reference 20thApril 2003 )) that they are ready to start from BFS despite rumours that BHD are looking for "continental " routes (as reported in the Belfast Telegraph this week )and may be in discussions with MO'L Maybe you would like to throw some light on that ?

[nick24]

British Midland currently land about 6 A321s on the BHD tarmac each day - I hope baby decide to move their 737s there too as it is so much more convenient for the city as opposed to a £25 / 30 minute taxi ride as pax currently have to put up with.

At present, BHD has no real "international" feel to it (no tax free shopping for example and I can't recall any European destinations other than some flybe flights being operated by Air France) but IMHO, adding Ryan Air would not enhance it's reputation as it appears to be a briefcase as opposed to a backpack airport.

[MerchantVenturer]

What about easyJet?

They have several mainland UK routes into BFS each day - would they not be attracted to BHD as well given its convenience to the city centre area?

[eastern wiseguy]

merchant venturer.......easyjet have signed a long term contract with BFS.Having said that despite its' convenience to the city centre (for those living in North Down ....tried trailing yourself out there on an evening round 5?:mad: )the city have a cap on the number of pax they can accept and their opening hours mean that unless you are home by midnight it is closed(as happened onThursday night to a Jersey/Flybe 146).The runway is one of its' failings poor surface/no room for expansion on either end...there is an uncategorised ILS..limited parking for aircraft...noise constraints(a powerful noise lobby exists and are set to become more vociferous if Sir Reg Empey gets his way)...taxiing difficulties(somewhat resolved).There will always be room for the City..but in terms of facilities BFS wins hands down.

[MerchantVenturer]

Many thanks for that, eastern wiseguy.

[Smokie]

ILS 22 is now cat 1 , DA 220ft. :ok:

[glynn-kayes]

baby do not have any plans to move services from bfs to bhd whatsoever ,its all rumour and probably came about because of the move from gla to pik.if you consider the amount of diverts that mainline have on the lhr route and off the tightness in schedule of baby turnrounds i cant see them taking a chance of having multiple wx delays every other day by having to divert to aldergrove it would upset the schedule far too much.....

[ALLMCC]

with BMI babys' announcement today of new route from bfs to teeside seems they are following Easyjets' tactics of introducing routes for the sake of it - Teeside has been tried before from Belfast and has never been supported due to proximity to ncl - hope it works for tiny - time will tell - doubt if bhd will particularly worried!

[richardhall99]

I know Gill Airways operated the MME-BFS route a few years ago but that was dropped due to poor loads which Im sure was down to the Shorts 360 that they operated in the route which was the reason a number of NCL routes did badly till they were replaced with the ATR's. Im sure another reason for the dropping of the route was the poor financial situation that they found themselves in as well as the decline in heavy industry links that the two areas had.
Who else has done the MME-BFS route?

[Tower Ranger]

Hi eastern, there might be more space for rwy expansion than you think, we`re also lookin at cat3 ils and ssr ... Sure even if we don`t lengthen it when we reduce it to 45m wide it`ll look longer..
As for baby coming down we`ve heard the rumours too and turnround times may depend on who is doin the handling.
Hi GK always look forward to your posts!!!

[ALLMCC]

hi richard - seem to remember Jersey European (as they were then) trying this route for a few months back in late 80s/early 90s - presumably they dropped due to poor loads - cant really see baby doing any better as danger of over capacity to NE of England what with Flybe & Easyjet already doing NCL

[JKP505]

Well, obviously Baby is just testing the water at MME, trying no routes with direct competition so far apart from BFS. I think with this development, bmiBaby have picked a couple of routes for easyJet to begin at NCL. I'm pretty sure AGP would have been given serious consideration before anyway, and GVA would have been a priority with it being a base etc.

I don't think Baby have got a hope in hell of competing with easyJet. The latter is a tried (and trusted!) no-frills carrier, whilst Baby is playing catch-up at break-neck/negligible speed. Maybe if Baby picked NCL itself, it would have stood a better chance...

Which would you rather on a scheduled flight? A once weekly service, or a daily service? I can't imagine many people in Teesside wanting to go to Geneva for a week.

[SKYHOOK]

JKP505

Quote:

"I don't think Baby have got a hope in hell of competing with easyJet. The latter is a tried (and trusted!) no-frills carrier, whilst Baby is playing catch-up at break-neck/negligible speed. Maybe if Baby picked NCL itself, it would have stood a better chance..."

Fact:

bmi baby now carry more passengers to Scotland from EMA than Easyjet despite similar schedules, one reason being allocated seating instead of the easy "free for all" on boarding.

Dont write-off baby, competition against Easy or anyone else does not frighten Sir Michael!
:p

[MerchantVenturer]

SKYHOOK,

Do you know the baby loadings from CWL to EDI and GLA compared to the easy loadings to these airports from BRS?

I know easy has 3 weekday rotations to EDI and GLA from BRS and baby has 2 to both of the Scottish airports from CWL, so obviously pro rata figures would apply.

[ALLMCC]

I thnk the point SKYHOOK was trying to make was that Baby seem to be expanding too quickly (remember Eurodirect!) - Teeside always seems to be in the shadow of NCL and has been tried a few times from Belfast without much success - I wonder how much market research Baby did before deciding to use Teeside as a base!

[SKYHOOK]

ALLMCC

No, my point was that bmi baby was being written-off as a competitor to Easyjet despite the fact that they are more popular with passengers at EMA on the Scottish routes.

Given the above, I think any speculation that baby will not succeed at MME is a little premature. The same happened at CWL and baby are doing just fine!

MME for those who care to look has an excellent passenger catchment area within less than 1 hr surface transport with very good access from all directions by road. Peel Airports who have just bought the majority shareholding at MME will provide the necessary investment and expertise to make it a real success and bring MME out of the shadow of NCL, which has always benefitted first when it comes to cash hand-outs from you and I as taxpayers.
:p

[JKP505]

Don't get me wrong, I would really hope that Baby are successful wherever they fly to, I am just questioning the decision of using Teesside as a base, especially since they haven't yet made a substantial network out of Manchester.

Even the bases at CWL and EMA have irregular timetables for a scheduled airline, I mean, wouldn't they be better off trying to build up to daily frequencies on the routes they already have? Take MME for example, a daily flight to BFS, once a week to AGP and GVA. For me, Baby just seems a little too much like a charter airline, although I understand that lo-co airlines do tend to operate leisure routes.

For this, they seem like a bit like flyGlobespan or Air Scotland, even Jet2 to some extent.

[SKYHOOK]

JKP


baby will be operating GVA on saturdays from end of Dec as I believe the ski season doesn't really get going until then. AGP being less seasonal starts weekly when baby commences operations from MME. BFS is the only daily rotation and all flights will initially be operated as a W pattern using EMA based aircraft.

I understand that the plan is to base 2 aircraft from March 2004 at MME with routes still to be announced.

I believe that the early establishment of a number of bases which gives the operation a "critical mass" which can be developed as time goes on will enable baby to compete with Easy and others throughout the UK, and prevents a situation where it has "all its eggs in one basket" at just one or two bases.