AC to buy Embraers ?

[PaperTiger]

AC wants RJs seating up to 110 passengers according to a news item (http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/030619/airlines_aircanada_2.html). The CRJ-900 is too small, the A318 too big and the Avro is out of production. So what's left ? ERJ190 :ugh:

[madtrap]

Also:
Neither the CRJ 900 or the B717 have the legs they want.
The A318 is a further cut-down of the A320 so is too heavy for it's size, and it costs ~ U$35M.
B737-600 has a similar price tag.
But the as-yet unbuilt Embraer will sell for around U$26M, and is designed for the size, with empressive seat-mile cost potential, and a whole lot more baggage and freight capacity than the rear-engined competition.

And the kicker of course is that the Brazilian government would dearly love to give Air Canada an interest-free loan to buy them; something that wouldn't happen for a Bombardier product. The entertainment value alone should be worth the price of admission.

all speculation of course, but... ;o)

[Willie Everlearn]

Star Alliance are in negotiations with Bombardier as we speak.
The reason is to negotiate the purchase of a rather sizeable order for a mixed bag of RJs (900/700/200) for 'member' airlines.

Something about their purchasing power....versus the individual members. They're also looking at a common configuration.

Air Canada as a Star Alliance member stands to benefit from the order as it is likely to receive a number of them to operate. (In the Star Alliance paint scheme) Something to do with their present 'financial state'.

So, it's unlikely the Embraer will show up anytime soon.

Having been around the industry for a number of years, "anything's possible", amigo!

Willie

[PaperTiger]

When I saw this item Willie, my first thought was that it was a bargaining ploy by AC to cut a deal on CRJ-900s. "Give us a break or we'll look elsewhere" sort of thing. If Star were to plump for Embraers all round, there'd be an almighty stink in Ottawa.

Did that Montreal outfit ever start up with the ERJ-145s ?

[STC]

One thing that must be considered, is that no Canadian type certificate exists as yet for either ERJ.

This is a significant hurdle that the first Canadian operator must jump.

It will include a complete review of the design to the latest standards for an airplane that was designed and certified to standards several years old. (Airplane TCs certification basis is locked on the date of APPLICATION)

This means alot of paperwork and a cold soak qualification test. And probably several modifications to turn it into the "Canadian configuration".

On top of all that, I've inspected both close up and in my opinion, the ERJ series is junk compared to the CRJ. The construction and design quality fall behind the CRJ. For that reason alone, I hope AC doesn't put all its berries in the ERJ basket.

[PaperTiger]

I share your sentiments STC, but the ERJ-190 (and -170) are new designs. Don't know if Embraer has any plans to get a Canadian TC for either, but I'm not convinced the hurdles are as great as you suggest. There's an executive Dornier 328 in Calgary which AFAIK is the only one in Canada, so I assume its operator did not find certification a problem since there are several comparable alternative types.

As to the quality of the rear-engined ERJs they certainly look flimsy beside a CRJ, and I don't know of a CRJ that has broken its back on landing.

So what did happen to those ERJs at Dorval ?

[Willie Everlearn]

Gentlemen...

as interesting as the 'possibilities' may be, as regards ACs rationalization of Regional Jets, having just read the Pilot Report in Flight International on the "fly-by-wire" EM170, I find myself rubbing my chin in wonder?
Having scrapped the BRJ-X could well turn out to be a bit of a clanger on the part of BA and could well translate into significant orders for EM.
Hmmm.....

This aircraft clearly isn't what you'd traditionally call a regional jet. It IS an airliner on the order of the jr. 737/A318 but at a much more reasonable price. $37,000,000 I believe it was.

As for Star Alliance, yes they are looking at the CRJ....
but they're also looking at Boeing, Airbus, and Embraer.

Perhaps there are possibilities for AC but I'm not convinced they will still be operating Jan 1/04. They've decided to park 40 aircraft and judging by their pissing contest with lessors over what they will pay for leased aircraft, it may all go pear shaped very shortly and they could well find themselves with less than 100 aeroplanes in the fleet.

Just how does a low cost carrier operate internationally??? I'm afraid West Jet doesn't provide us with a reliable answer on that one.
BTW (My apology in advance to sensitivities at AC over that remark)

Let's wait and see?
Good luck to AC just the same

The only Embraers I've seen around YUL are two Brasilias intended for use between Buttonville and Dorval. Nice paint job (Royal Blue and Lime Green) but I don't think they've done so much as a circuit????

Willie :ok:

[STC]

PaperTiger,

Check out the TC site and take a look at the Do-328 Canadian type certificate.

Its relatively new and contains a great deal of Canadian standards and requirements. I can assure you that the standards listed are not just lip service. A great deal of substantiating data needed to be prepared to support compliance. Notice the "Canadian Configuration" section that piles on a service bulletin that must be embodied. As I mentioned, the hurdle is not insurmountable (usually) be it is a hurdle all the same.

Cheers.