Management Pilots?

[special_ig]

Not quite sure if this is the appropriate forum, but I'd rather see answers from professional pilots than from other "Wannabees".

So here it goes... I am 29 years old, have a MSc degree in Finance and doing pretty well for my self as a Finance Manager at a large American company. Lived and traveled all over the world and always felt (and still feel) like a little kid when I got onto a plane. Recently put this love for air travel into practice by starting my PPL training. Went solo after 14 hours, starting nav now and absolutely love it. No better feeling. Well....not many :o)

Being able to earn a living with this hobby sounds like a great proposition, but at my age, with this economy etc things seem very tough. I don't think I would be willing to take two years off towing banners for zero money to build up 1500 hours to stand a remote change to get the F/O position and make half of what I am making now as I would be on the same seniority level as a 20-year-old.

Recently, though, I came across the term "management pilot" (mostly in a negative light, but anyway...). What does the term mean exactly and are there pilots out there who fly part time and work in a management position at the airline the rest of the time? And would these people stand a chance with a "mere", say, 250 hour fATPL?? Or am I totally wrong and is there no such thing as a "part time pilot".

Thanks,

special_ig

[kumul1]

A management pilot as far as I know, with a few exceptional exceptions, must have worked for the said airline for a number of years and made it to a managerial position like Chief pilot, Manager line ops, Standards and so on. He would generaly have a degree in some sort of managing related field but is not always the case. He continues to fly at least once a month to keep current because he is primarily a pilot and because he can.

If he is brought in from another airline, he normaly has a lot of experience.

[Genghis the Engineer]

So far as the airline industry is concerned Kamul is almost certainly correct.

In the little aeroplane industry where I earn my crust, the picture is subtly different. Many people, myself included are in senior management but are required / preferred to hold relevant flying licenses as well. Don't misread me however, it's not a short cut to anything, what we're talking about are...

- (GA) Airfield managers
- GA Association Chief Executives (e.g. PFA, GAMTA, BGA, etc.)
- Company Chief / Senior Engineers
- Heads of certain departments at CAA
- Air Accident Engineering Investigators
- Flight Test Engineers

In other words people who have other qualifications that are the main issue in their jobs, but for whom a good and current understanding of flying makes all the difference and allows them to do the job well.

And yes, at least in my case (I'd come under the "company Chief Engineer" or "FTE" banner) it allows me to do a lot of interesting, and demanding, flying in work time. (Also interesting authority gradient issues - this afternoon I was flying right hand seat to my Chief Test Pilot, who is answerable to me. Go figure ! At the end of the day professionalism is all - otherwise we'd be in trouble.)

But, I don't think this happens in the air-transport industry, management pilots there are Senior Captains who have moved partly into management, not the converse.

G

[oxford blue]

Not completely true. In many major airlines (BA is one, for instance), whilst promotion to captain is strictly by seniority (ie, time), it is possible to start making your mark in the management field whilst still a First Officer. Those who wish to (it's not compulsory) can take on management and administration tasks which require pilot knowledge and input. A good example might be Editor of the Company Flight Manual for the aircraft fleet. Or managing/administering the direct entry pilot training. You don't have to be Training Captain to plan and organise courses.

These people get paid extra for taking on these tasks. Sometimes it means that they don't fly quite so much. But, in general, they are the people from whom the future Fleet Managers. Flight Ops Managers, and Chief Pilots will be selected.

However, special_ig, you you would be unlikely to get one of these jobs until you'd been a rank-and-file line pilot for about 3 years. Without a really solid grounding in the airline's operations, you're not much use as a pilot manager - management is not an abstract task. In fact that's the trouble with too many 'professional managers' - they think that a business degree gives them a special insight into something, when what is actually needed is a sound grasp of the practicalities.

[Dan Winterland]

The example of BA is a good one where those with the best management skills become manangers - I think! (I am prepared to be corrected by any BA pilot on this one.) However, other airlines tend to make their more senior pilots managers with few qualifications other than they are good mates with the current managers and have the correct handshake.

It has been proved time and time again that pilots do not necessarily make good managers - often with disasterous consequences. But still the practice continues.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'm glad to see that Engineering isn't alone - I've worked for quite a few engineering or scientific function managers who were promoted on technical ability alone and possessed far too little apparent management ability.

However, just making one point about something Oxford Blue said - whilst I agree that a business degree doesn't equip anybody to manage, experience does that. People with such degrees tend to pick up and use such experience better on average than those without. (And no, I don't have one.)

G

[BarryMonday]

Pilots don't always make good managers and conversely managers don't always make good pilots.

Historically management positiions have been filled by people who have shown a commitment to management and in anything other than a few state airlines this means showing an interest in training at an early stage, this also means being prepared to have a very truncated roster that cuts out all the nice long trips and leaves one with only the turn-arounds and grave yard shift in the simulator and such. These rosters only suit the seriously career mined individual and the one that wants a lot of time at home, unfortunately it doesn't always include the best trainers and managers!

All that said, can see where you are coming from and the answer is as already supplied, no chance in an established carrier but may be in a new start up or the flying school you choose to go to.