How long do those in the know reckon !??

[Canada Goose]

Having been on the sidelines for nearly 2 years, my circumstances are such that I am presently seriously considering taking advantage of some downtime between contracts to pull all the stops out and push the throttle full fwd and engage myself in distance studying Mods 1 & 2 of the fATPL. That is I would be spending most work days (and some weekend time) studying as opposed to studying at weekends and after work (i.e. on top of a full time job).

My wife has been asking me how long it would take to do this, obvioulsy, and I have informed her that everyone studies at their own rate blah blah blah ...........

I have over the months and years narrowed 2 potential schools down, yes you guessed it, Bristol and Oxford, and I will be wanting to speak with them before any final decisions, however, based upon those who have been through the mill, how long do you reckon it will take me !!??

For the record, it is probably fair to say that I have above average ability in studying (2 degrees, 1 MSc Eng) as well as a sound insight into the more practical side of aviation (Canadian CPL and Multi IR), so it's not like I'm ab initio !!

So what does the apron reckon ......?? 2, 3, 4 months for both mods 1 and 2 ?? Bristol talk about Mod 1 as 4/5 months with Mod 2 about 1 month less, but is this assuming study on top of a full time job !??

Cheers,
C.G.

[FlyingForFun]

Since I did my studying purely during evenings and weekends, this is really just an educated guess, but two or three months per module sounds reasonable if you really do go for it.

The main reason for posting, though, is to make two points. First of all, will you really be able to study full-time? I'm not just talking about outside influences like your wife insisting on you spending time with her occassionally, I'm also talking about whether you'll be able to find the motivation to work at that rate. Bristol's second module is so boring that I can't find the words to explain how hard it is to keep going - and I'm saying that as someone who only needed to spend a few hours at a time on it, not days on end.

The second point is that you should make sure your school are aware of your time-scales. I don't know about Oxford, but the brush-up course at Bristol gets booked a few months in advance, so you'll need to book it as soon as you start studying, if not before. Have a chat with them, let them know what you're planning, and see what they advise.

Good luck!

FFF
--------------

[expedite_climb]

Not sure how the new mods compare with the old system, but I did PPL to BCPL (now called the CPL), with ATPL exams and FI rating in 6 months... (flying and ground). I reckon you could probably do the ground in 4 months total if you go for it, I did and I'm very lazy !!

[oxford blue]

If you are genuinely committed to working for the exams for an an average of five days a week and six hours plus per day, then you will be putting in the same amount of time as a full-time residential student.

In this case, the following may be a helpful guide. How you apply it depends on your own circumstances.

At Oxford, our Phase 1 residential modular groundschool lasts 14 weeks. Our Phase 2 lasts 12 weeks. The students have 4 weeks off in between, to sit the Phase 1 exams and get their results in order to make any necessary decisions (depending on their results) before starting Phase 2, and also to have a much-needed break.

These students have the advantage of full-time face-to-face access to instructors and they also give each other mutual support. They often explain things to one other, both during the day and in the evening. As a distance learning student you will be on your own and your access to instructors will be confined to phone and e-mail, apart from brush-up courses.

I think that you would need to be quite exceptionally capable and committed to do it in less than the 30 weeks that our residential modular students take.

[Send Clowns]

Having sat the entire course (full-time) as well as now teaching (for BCFT) I would have to respectfully and cautiously (with caveats) disagree with Oxford Blue on one point.

First I agree entirely that classroom study is best for most people. The points Oxford Blue makes about instructor time and help from students applies to all full-time groundschools. This is to many students extremely helpful, even vital to their success. We encourage any students who wish to study distance learning with us that if they are not doing well they should transfer to a full-time course.

However if you are as capable as you claim, Canada, you may be able to complete the course in less than 30 weeks.

For a start many residential courses come in a little shorter, due to less time off in between the two setions. Studying on your own you could restart immediately. Secondly you have some specialist background that means some of the work will be relatively easy that may have been difficult to others. Instead of sitting through the classroom teaching of everyone you can work quickly through this. Some material will take longer to understand without an instructor, but I think in the case of a student with a good, numerate academic background in addition to a background in aviation the overall effect will be to shorten the course, as long as you use a good set of notes (the two you are contemplating, alongside ours and at least one other set available I would say are).

The reason I judge this is that I am also from a numerate academic background in addition to a background in aviation. I feel that although I am glad I studied on an attendance course I would have been capable of finishing more quickly by self study. The whole thing falls down in that I am not very good at self-study, but if you are (the number of degrees suggests you are) then you may well be able to finish in around 5 months, assuming you pass everything first time.

The biggest caveat I would give is not to rely on this. You may be able to rush through, but don't commit to it and don't force yourself into exams you are not ready for just to keep to your own arbitary timetable!

Best of luck

[Canada Goose]

Thanks to all who have responded and your words of good luck. By the sounds of it, 6 months (given brush-ups and actual exams)would be a reasonable, if not sensible guideline. I guess I'd get a better feel for things once I begin down the Mod 1 road. If all goes well it should hopefully be wrapped up by the end of the year, leaving the multi IR conversion and CPL skills test to do in the early part of 2004 !

Cheers,
C.G.
:D

[parris50]

It's not an impossible schedule if you can clear things out of your life to make way for this. I did the groundschool and hours building in 8 months on top of full time job and family.

CPL took from September to January using weekends and the MEP rating and IR took me from January unitil.. well.. yesterday.

Yes it's definitely possible to do it a reasonably short time span but you must make sure there aren't too many distractions. I say go for it and good luck.

[Canada Goose]

Parris50,

Interesting to hear of your story so far - most impressive. Your family must have been very understanding for you to achieve all you've done so far on top of a full-time job ! I'd wager you're one of those enviable types who is as naturally bright and can handle huge workloads ! I know a Romanian guy in Canada who is as bright as a button and would think of nothing staying up until 3 or 4 AM working, only to turn up for work the next day and do another hard days graft. The guy was prolific, he ended up doing an MBA (this one was particularly noted for it's high workload) on top of a very busy work schedule and ended up getting a high mark !

I hope I'm made of the same stuff ! ;-)

Good luck with the rest of yours.

Cheers,
C.G.

[benhurr]

Quickest I know was someone who started studying in February, did Mod 1 exams in June and Mod 2 in July - with brush up courses before the exams. Very clever person and passed all the exams very successfully at the first attempt.

[mad_jock]

My tuppence worth

My background

Mech Eng degree
Scuba diving instructor.

Did phase 1 with oxford started Jan sat the exams in May while working full time.

The engineering degree meant most of it was revision. And performance etc was obvious once you got your head round the concepts.

The only swine was operational procedures, I was working abroad so didn't want to hang around for 2 days waiting for HPL and comms. Proberly spent more time revising that one than anything else.

The only problem I found was the hours log you are meant to keep. The fact that I had already done AC/DC electrics at school and then at Uni dosn't seem to matter. In fact a bigger problem was trying to dumb down to the knowledge taught in the world of JAR.

Phase 2 I did when I got back from europe 3 weeks studying full time then the 2 week brush up. The diving pretty well dealt with the HPL apart from the brain stuff. The Engineering helped with the Radio Nav. Comms papers are a joke and I don't know why they bother. There was only 2 question different between the 2 papers. Met I found one of the most interesting subjects out of the lot.

The 2 that gave me grief were the Gen Nav which was the only one I failed out of the 14 by 1 % (and I still don't think I know any more on the subject between when I failed it and passed it)
And airlaw which I would have quite happly failed the rest as long as I didn't need to do that exam again. Thankfully Oxfords feedback did the job. And as the instructors told us the only bit I use day to day is the stuff I learned for PPL. Still waiting for some tosser to jump out and ask me which annex facilitation is.

So with a hefty amount of background knowlege before you start it is possible to get them all out of the way in 3 months. If it was all fresh to me I would have taken alot longer.

I was adding the time up for my training going the modular route

3 weeks PPL
4 weeks hour building
12 weeks ATPL study
14 weeks CPL/IR/FI
2 weeks exams

I spread it over 18 months with 3 of them deciding if I should go for it or not and another one waiting for the class 1 medical app. The above numbers although look good I wouldn't like to have done it all back to back. I think a trip to the mental hospital would have been the likely outcome.

MJ

[Canada Goose]

More interesting feedback ...

MJ, your feedback mirrors my perception of how I'll probably find and cope with the different subjects. I personally find Met one fo the most interesting subjects, even from high school days. In fact when I did my A levels back in the mid 80's my B grade in Geography was pretty much down to the fact that I figured out on the "Physical Geog." paper there was always 2 questions on Met in and another 2 in Part B - my strategy was to answer these questions and forget about plate tectonics etc that everybody else thought was really sexy !! Give me a thunderstorm anyday !! Now that is sexy ;-) .

I was also privileged in being taught Met in Canada by a retired RCAF Met man for my CPL, and when I did my IR the course this was given by a current RCAF C130 SAR pilot, who also had a penchant for Met !! The subject is infinte - never boring !!

Here's looking fwd to ATPL met :-)

Cheers,
C.G.

[mad_jock]

Don't be fooled into thinking that because you have been taught a subject before that it will be the same in the world of JAR.

The number of times I though well thats bollocks, and Steve who was instructing had a wry grin on his face when he could see my confusion. Then at the end he did clarify that i was right but thats not the answer they are looking for.

Unfortunatly us mechanical type engineers really do have a huge advantage over the other students. The ability to revert back to first principles to have a educated guess at an answer is such a bonus. But then again we did slog through 3-4 years of getting beaten into being problem solving machines.

I think the prime example for the was induction tacho's there was 6 questions on it in my systems paper and it was covered by .75 of a page in the notes. If i had't done a project which involved Data aquisition of the natural freqs of drive shaft, I don't think I would have passed.

MJ