View Full Version : easy jet buy your own type rating
NightSun
12th Jun 2003, 03:05
Why is everybody signing up to this scheme when you take a huge pay cut and are bonded for five years. If noboddy went for it they would offer the normal terms in conditions. I applied for aposition at easy Jet over a year ago when this scheme did not exsist. I got offered an interview but looking at the terms I could not afford the pay cut and rang up and spoke to the recruiter guy. He said if I had said the same thing six months ago I would have been offered the direct entry scheme. Now everybody who is recruited without a type rating must take the sponsorship deal.
If nobody took it I am sure there policy would soon change.
Don't buy a type rating either it just brings day the overall terms for Pilots everywhere. Any thoughts.
It is probably quite simple - market forces SUPPLY & DEMAND. In essence, it is what the employer believes he can get away with.
You are correct in thinking that if nobody accepted the scheme, the employer would have to think again.
Human nature being what it is, and the sluggish demand due to world events, and with the supply side very keen to continue with their progress, notwithstanding the less than ideal conditions available on offer.
It is the desire of having the 737 type rating which is driving the process. Emirates next in their sights, with 1000+ hours jet time ?
Long term is it a price worth paying? I think a number will say YES.
It all comes down to market forces.
PAXboy
12th Jun 2003, 18:09
This is the same as we see in conventional commerce now. In I.T., for example, some qualifications are expensive and much needed parts of a cv. People may be sponsored by the employer and then be bonded on a sliding scale for 12 or 24 months, depending upon the value of the course they attend.
It is all part of the need of management to move risk and cost from them to the individual. This will soon become the normal practise and folks will not remember that it used to be done any other way.
Can be it stopped (in any field)? No, not a chance. Reason? Every 12 months, the high schools and universities kick out another bunch of eager young people. :rolleyes:
Dan Winterland
12th Jun 2003, 18:30
It's a feature of the changing employment market, and not just in aviation. Wheras a few years ago people would join a carrier expecting to stay for a long time - maybe life with the benefits of a final salary pension scheme, nowadays people are always going to look for the better deal. This has largely evolved from the practice of employers constantly seeking ways to reduce costs, but some of the blame has to lie with the employees.
The company I first worked for having left the military was an established long haul operator who people joined expecting to stay in until retirement. The pay was a lot lower than average, but people stayed because it was a fun company who didn't work you too hard, had reasonable command prospects and the job was apparently secure. But after Sept 11 when the company showed it's loyalty to it's pilot workforce by laying a quarter of them off, the perception of this company has changed. Now, pilots in that company will always look for something better, be it better renumeration, lifestyle or command prospects. Many (including myself) have left for other operators - something that had never happened before in that company's history. But they still receive a lot of CVs, have a fully functioning training department, get tax relief on training and are probably not worried about the situation.
If easyJet can find people to pay for their type rating, they will continue to offer this deal. Objecting to this on principle by not applying merely means you will not get the job. Someone else who is willing to be bonded for 5 years on lower pay is probably going to be more than happy with that situation. It may mean that they will look for different employment as soon as their 5 years is up, but as I said earlier - that is the nature of the job market now.
However, I suspect that easyJet are fuly aware that the supply of these people will dececrease if the aviation market picks up and they may well have to offer £30K 'golden hellos' again to fill their seats.
springbok449
13th Jun 2003, 05:59
If you hang around a few months they will be paying you to get a type rating!
boris
13th Jun 2003, 18:35
Whilst the principle of Bonding or Training Agreements is easy to defend, it looks as though this scheme contains the worst of both worlds, what with a reduced salary AND a five year period.
In any contract such as this, it is incumbent on the employer to show that the costs (to the employee) are reasonable should a dispute occur. Perhaps, NightSun, you could supply us with the amount of pay reduction one would be expected to take and the cost easyJet says it must pay for your type rating?
I would suggest that costs above about 15 grand sterling would be difficult to justify as would the period on such a common and simple type, particularly when three years seems to be the industry norm. The potential advantage of the type rating to the pilot over some undefined period in the future, whilst undeniable, does not come into it, by the way.
Look forward to more info.
We will require a bond of £23,000 - representing a proportion of the total training costs we will incur, which we will require you have available at the beginning of the training course and be deposited with our training provider.
TRRS basic salary (5 yrs) First Officers £26,7891
Type Rated: First Officer (frozen ATPL) £28,610 (1st 6 months), First Officer (frozen ATPL) £31,789
MAX:cool:
nice_beaver
16th Jun 2003, 04:29
Also from the website but not mentioned above....
On employment, we will pay you back this bond over 5 years so that you can, in turn, repay the loan you took to fund that bond.
Doesn't sound quite so bad now. After the 5th year on the TRSS salary scale you jump back to the normal scale, so a nice pay rise to look forward to if you stick it out. Oh yeh and if you make command you will be getting a 10% loyalty bonus per annum.
Read the full deal at www.easyjet.com and make you own mind up!
NB
CheekyVisual
19th Jun 2003, 20:00
NightSun (Kiwi in big trouble son of) I totally agree with the sentiment BUT in the real world people will always do it. We all want to feel like our careers are progressing and the only progression available for a lot of folk out there at present is schemes like this.
EasyJets arguement being it's your qualification not ours and we will only pay you back if you use your qualification in our business not someone elses. There is a certain business logic to it even if from our point of view the whole thing sucks !
Supply and demand, as previously mentioned, is the key. For those out there on average TP money the sponsorship scheme still represents a modest pay rise with the bonus of gaining a useful type.
Ok the bond is too long for those of you looking to use EJ as a stepping stone to, say, Air New Zealand. But that's why they are doing it and saving themselves a big wedge of cash.
The truth is any business will treat it's employees as badly as it can get away with. At present they can get away with it !
Latest ad in FLIGHT 17-23 June, you can choose your designated base from the outset, provided you apply in the next three months? An interesting strategy, perhaps even tempting for those sitting on the fence.
Perhaps Springbok 449 is closer to the truth than I first thought
Flypuppy
19th Jun 2003, 21:44
Rumour has it that Easyjet will be looking for 250 pilots per year for the next 2 years. There are other threads running on PPRuNe stating that ez have AOG due to crew shortage.
With 120 new aircraft coming online at the rate of 1 per month will ez still be offering this sort of deal in say a years time?
Over simplified supply and demand equations:
Pilots - Type Rating = AOG = no income = no airline
Pilots + Type Rating = aircraft flying = pax in planes = income
Air Mail
25th Jun 2003, 03:06
What will happen when the A319 is introduced?
Will EasyJet re-train all those that paid for 737 ratings to convert to the A319? Or will they only re-type existing employees prior to the introduction of the self sponsored scheme and then make all the self sponsored pilots redundant?
I can't imagine EasyJet operating both aircraft types due to the costs of having a mixed fleet.