Aer Lingus pulling out of GLA/EDI/LCY

[hail1967]

Anyone know more of the rumour of EI pulling out of these routes because they don't have high enough yields and they want rid off the 146s ?

[Bearcat]

My friends in AL tell me that the 146's are going late Sept/Oct. Chief exec is going between Boeing and airbus re the flet replacement. Bets are on airbus.

[MarkD]

LCY had to go because the quad hairdryers were being phased out but GLA and EDI is a new rumour. Hope it won't go the way of NCL and that BA will take up the route.

Sad to see EI chopping (if true) the route I first flew on - even though it was on a hired FR 111 and Loganair 146!

Uncle MoL would be warming up the PR dept if EI left routes he competes actively on... reason enough to stay?

[GustyOrange]

I've seen EI 737's at GLA recently, don't know if there is any connection.

Gusty

[minuteman]

Don't be overly surprised if you see LGW added to that list.....

[akerosid]

I had heard that BA was giving up LGW-DUB and that EI would take it over.

Frankly it can't come soon enough; can't stand those 146s!

[trustno1]

I hear on the grapevine that EI are looking into the possibility of using one of their slots at LHR to begin a Heathrow - Alicante service. There's a turn up for the books.

[bounty]

Gusty - there have been EI 737s at EDI as well recently.

Disturbing rumour though :confused: I hope it stays at that - I know that FR loads to EDI haven't been fantastic recently - I wonder whether that is true for EI as well.

[GASH !]

EI 737's have been flying into EDI for years, this is hardly news.

I would be surprised to see Aer Lingus pull out of EDI as pax
numbers are good, although they do seem to struggle to sell business class seats these days.

[bounty]

EI 737's have been flying into EDI for years, this is hardly news.

GASH !, it wasn't posted as news - merely a reply to Gusty.

I would be surprised to see Aer Lingus pull out of EDI as pax I would be surprised to see Aer Lingus pull out of EDI as pax
numbers are good, although they do seem to struggle to sell business class seats these days.

I'm not surprised. Their business class offering is terrible.

[A Nonny Mouse]

I heard a rumour the other day that Ryanscare are thinking about using some of their ex-buzz 146s to take over the LCY-DUB route.

Now that would be interesting!

[Joe Curry]

>>I would be surprised to see Aer Lingus pull out of EDI as pax
numbers are good,<<

EI's DUB-USA flights need the input from long-haul starved EDI.:ok:

[GustyOrange]

A few years back I was frequent Premier class pax GLA - DUB and the offering was ok, but I hear it has been changes somewhat.

Couldn't comment more...

Gusty

[akerosid]

A Nonny Mouse, I would eat my hat (indeed, I would go out, buy a hat, BBQ it and eat it with tabasco sauce and mayo) if Ryanair were to do that.

The only way those 146s are going to figure in FR's future plans is if they're melted down to make beer cans, for sale on board.

O'Leary's not going to deal with a high cost airport like LCY, add to his costs by introducing any new acft type (and particularly not 146s) and divert attention away from what has been a very successful business plan.

[MarkD]

I see EI are thinking about routes ex LHR. WHY?

EI are an Irish airline. Routes ex UK are what BA are for. If EI thinks they can profitably operate a route ex LHR, Rod Eddington should be roaring up and down Waterworld's corridors looking for heads.

Instead we see EI cut back and back and back on Irish routes. What the hell is oneworld for? Surely the rumoured LHR-ALC route should be the province of BA or IB?

If EI can't make money from UK regionals - why not?? I am very annoyed at the retreat from NCL by BA/EI as I have had to forgo a planned trip to the region as I can't get there in time from Cork via BHX, EMA or MAN.

It seems if you don't own a house in Spain, WW isn't interested in you!

If EI stops serving Ireland, pax who flew with them out of loyalty to the flag will discover that BD offer superior times and service LHR-DUB (I hear from pax who have been with both) and when Willie Walsh decides to scuttle back to Ireland when times are tough, pax may decide they are happy where they are?

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Akerosid - completely agree, but remember MOL already has some 146's ... he got them with Buzz!

[minuteman]

akerosid - you're right.

MarkD - what are you on about? FR are an Irish airline and do a lot more flying from STN than they do out of DUB. Should they let EZY take over for them just because they're Irish? And as for NCL, well the loads on that route never justified anything bigger than a Dash 8 anyway. In fact, the only two routes that are no longer on the schedule (since summer 2001 anyway) are EWR and ARN.

It's not so long ago that a lot of EI continental flights went through both MAN and BRS, so the idea of EI flying out of a UK airport is not exactly new. If there's a commercial opportunity out of LHR why not take it? I'd also reckon EI have more slots into LHR than IB would, and there's nothing to stop BA codesharing on it (never mind the fact the crew are cheaper too!) BD's LHR-DUB isn't doing all that well (despite the timings you cite.)

My take on it is that GLA and EDI may probably drop to one daily service, but I wouldn't bet on it. It's a fact of life that when FR setpped onto the routes to fight off GO, it killed off a lot of EI's traffic. LCY will go with the 146's, and 3 daily flights to LGW from DUB with BA is probably enough on that alongside FR's service. It doesn't make too much sense to continue a high frequency service as BA continue to relocate their long-haul services up the road to LHR. In the meantime, the capacity is redistributed onto increasing frequency elsewhere and giving the flexibility to introducing further new destinations.

[MarkD]

minuteman

FR are an Irish airline because of:
a) low corporation tax
b) IAA rather than CAA

Once Poland or Estonia offer them a better deal, Ryanair HQ will be there like a flash.

The "fifth freedom" flights to Europe were back in the bad old pre-deregulation days when they needed the uplift pax to make the ex-DUB flight pay. With more efficient use of aircraft routes ex DUB and other Irish airports are now profitable.

As has been pointed out previously, EI's paring of UK regionals has damaged the possibility of feed from places like NCL, BHX, etc. to LAX, ORD and so on.

I think there is plenty of profits to be made from Irish airports - witness Arann, Baby, Jetmagic, Flybe, CSA to ORK - even BA to NOC! CSA are marketing their PRG base as a hub for Central/Eastern Europe ex ORK.

If IB want slots for LHR there is always leasing. Taking on LHR as a base only invites retaliation from continental carriers, and that's a fight EI doesn't have the money to win.

[starone]

I think that EI will pull out of city (obviously!), with bace taking that one over, while BA pull out of lgw with ei remaining on the route.

As for BD, if it's an indication, I have got on 3 of their friday evening flights recently when i couldn't get on ei's ex dublin. Thats out of 7 trips, ticketed open, in the past 2months.

As for oneworld...well didn't the CEO(?) of Star Alliance recently cite that Skyteam were more of a competitive force then oneworld and that the latter was 'falling apart'.

Having recently managed to fly ib, ei and ba in the space of 3 weeks, i would say that IB have a major attitude problem, EI is lowcost, and BA is charming (generally!), where is the cohesiveness in that? Is one world simply a vehicle for codesharing and lobbying. where have the recent $1billion savings qouted as a benefit of OW come from. Sadly what was the classiest alliance that LOOKED like a select few unlike the ragtaggle of STAR, is now coming away at the seams.

[richardhall99]

When EI did the NCL-DUB route it was virtually impossible to get on that F50 flight. It all went down hill after Gill left the route and it was monopolised by BA with fairly hefty prices. It was not until the total downturn in air travel and that they realised their business plan was terrible and so as a last ditch effort got rid of the regional routes.

The Ryanair route is a major success story for the airport, airline and both the regions that it serves. Around 200+ pax in each direction aint bad.

[minuteman]

MarkD - I completely agree, FR use Ireland purely as a flag of convenience inside the EU. As soon as they can relocate that AOC they will be gone like a flash. The point I was trying to make is that regardless of how profitable the DUB routes are, the next logical expansion for shorthaul in EI is to start looking at routes ex-UK a la FR. And why not? If you can operate on a route with a lower cost base than your comptetitors, you're going to generate profit more quickly! Witness the battle on DUB-STN, EI were never going to be able to compete. The routes you refer to out of ORK etc; most of those are served by low capacity aircraft, very few of those aircraft have more than 100 seats. Clearly this is not the type of operation EI is moving towards.

There was never that much connecting traffic from UK regionals through DUB to the states, I just don't think that people ever thought that they were really able to (or ever thought that transitting DUB was a lot easier than LHR!)

As for oneworld, I think that you'll find that on a global basis, carriers will pull off the more marginal routes (which may have been historically really only for connecting traffic) and concentrate on those point-to-point services which probably make up the core of their business and concentrate on sustaining that. oneworld promised greater flexibility in changing between carriers' networks, rather than promising a standard level of service. Anyone travelling internally in the US will know that the level of service in Y class is not that far away from what EI offer right now!

[Scottie Dog]

Getting back to the original thread.

Looking at the advance IATA slot allocation for winter 03/04, it would appear that EI are still planning on operating 4 flights per day Mon-Fri, 1 on Saturday and 1 on Sunday.

Things might of course change.

[hail1967]

But if you look at the EI website they have pulled one of the EDI flights already (comes into effect at Xmas time). I think EI are getting ready to pull out. A disgrace that the Irish national carrier can't maintain a decent service between two capital cities.

[akerosid]

I disagree, Hail1967. The importance of direct links being maintained by national carriers has long gone. What does matter is that routes are served, that people use them and that traffic increases. This is what is happening now. Bums on seats!

FR operates this route; my feeling is that it doesn't make sense for two low cost carriers to be on the same route. Much better to use resources to open new routes and I hope that this is what EI does when it axes EDI and LGW.

It looks like the 146s will indeed by ditched by the end of the Summer - and not before time!

[akerosid]

This morning's Indo reports that EI is indeed ditching the 146 - and not a moment too soon; the aircraft will be leaving the fleet by the end of the Summer. LGW - but not EDI/GLA - will be dropped and the airline will be getting three 32x/737 aircraft to replace the 146s, on short term leases.

The airline's major focus now is on the t/a routes. It has (as Seamus B. acknowledged in Dail questions) been in contact with the government on numerous occasions and while the initial focus is on Florida (principally MCO, but EI officials have been in touch with MIA airport) and California, sixteen airports have been indentified.

Presuambly, efforts are also under way to get hold of more 332s for the Winter season. My bet is on TAM, the Brazilian carrier, which recently tried (but failed, due to SARS), to place 2 332s with China Airlines. While those acft were PW powered, it has around five GE powered 332s, which would also be equipped with crew bunks, getting over the issue which stopped the CPT route last year.

[MarkD]

Doesn't AA have a hub at MIA? Trying to recall but am not sure...

[akerosid]

One of those "do bears do their business in the woods?" questions, MarkD. Do they what!! ;-))

MIA would be an ideal destination for getting access to AA's huge central and south American network. However, until the whole bilateral issue is sorted out, there might be problems with EI getting access to "main" US ports like MIA, SFO, DFW etc and they may have to use the same methods they used before, when they went into BWI - i.e. second line airports. However, even if they can't get into MIA immediately, they can still get into MCO and SJC, which I believe are their main targets, initially.

[MarkD]

akerosid

didn't want to be misleading people :D

[Scottie Dog]

From an Aer Lingus newsletter:

"Aer Lingus is to cease services to London City and London Gatwick Airports

This move is part of our preparations for a decision on our fleet in September 2003


London Gatwick services will operate until 14 July and London City services will operate until the end of the Summer schedule"