Junes Perf' Exam

[Paulscho]

Did anyone sit this months Perf' Exam?
If so, what was your general feeling on the questions. I personally feel it was a fair paper with nothing really that I had not seen before.
Good luck, the 2 week long wait is now on!!!

[flyfish]

I agree , it appeared a fair paper,very different to the one i sat and failed in April.
Having said that i spent a day with Chris Perry at Oxford and i think that made a difference.
Perhaps the CAA have seen the light as the principles of flight paper was "principles of flight " and not rocket science this time.Still who knows , just have to sit tight and wait those painful 2 weeks.

[Paulscho]

The April exam was very tricky, I got 71%, just 2 marks off!! Did you go to Chris Perry on the Saturday before the exam? I was there and found it really useful???
It sounds like there are alot of people out there thoroughly pee'd off with P of F! Glad I got that one already!!

[flyfish]

Yes i was at that one, I have been to Bristol and Oxford for perf. Alex and Chris both have a real talent for getting the subject across. If i fail , its got to be through CAA trickery as i feel i know this subject more than any other i have studied and passed.To anyone else finding perf a problem, speak to Alex at Bristol or Chris at Oxford, both are top trainers.

[Paulscho]

Flyfish, did you see the following question in the exam? " What happens to Vx and Vy with increasing altitude"?
The correct answer...........Vx stays constant and Vy decreases was not in the answers!!! There was not even an answer with the piston Vx increasing. A few of us made a note to those lovely kind folks at Gatwick!!!
Let me know how you get on when results come through.

[Keith.Williams.]

Paul,

Your comments regarding the way VX and VY change with inreasing altitude are very interesting. As you are probably aware the CAA stopped asking this question in 2001 when they discovered that they did not know the answer. It would be helpful if you could recall the exact wording of the question and its options. Also, did you report it to your FTO? I suspect that objections raised by students rarely enjoy the same degree of consideration as those raised by FTOs.

[Paulscho]

Keith,

That is very interesting, if the CAA don't know the answer then how are we supposed to know?!!! I will mention it to my FTO today. As far as I can remember, the question was as follows:

"With increasing altitude what happens to the speeds Vx and Vy?

A: Vx increases Vy decreases
B: Vx increases Vy remains constant
C: Vx remains constant Vy increases
D: Vx decreases Vy Decreases

There was no mention of piston or jet.
A few of us in the exam reluctantly went with D as a process of elimination and it been the nearest answer.
Still, I don't think the question was fair and lets see if we can find out what they were looking for.

[letsrock2019]

well, on my plane, vx increase and vy decrease.

[Keith.Williams.]

Paul,

The initial mistake they made was to overlook the fact that prop aircraft and jet aircraft behave very differently. In some of the old questions there were two correct answers, one for props (Vx increases Vy decreases) and one for jets (Vx constant and Vy decreasing). Unfortuanately they did not specify the aircraft type. The problem is made even more complicated by the fact that for some low speed fixed pitch prop aircraft Vx decreases while Vy decreases even faster!

In the question above you cpoulfd pick option (a) or (d) each of which is correct for some props and the jet answer is not there.

[Alex Whittingham]

It's not the same question as the one that was taken out before, but it's very similar. We (bristol) have appealed already and are waiting to hear back from the CAA.

[Paulscho]

Alex,
I believe Oxford have also appealed and have been told the CAA are taking it out of the exam.
Thanks again for the CD, hopefully, it proved very useful!! Still waiting for the big white envelope from Gatwick!!!

[moku]

I also heard today from my School that that question has been removed from the exam.... Sometimes good news does come from the CAA.

[spitfire747]

i have not got the results yet but if i recall the wording went like this

Everything else being CONSTANT, what happens to speeds Vx and Vy with increasing altitude ?

i did raise a enquiry and heard that everyone was credited, but was also told the wording "everything else being constant" has an impact on the answer with the correct answer being both decrease ??? who knows !!

[Alex Whittingham]

I don't think that makes much difference. The two big problems are that the question didn't specify jets or props, and didn't specify how VX and VY were measured, i.e. as an EAS, IAS or TAS.

For a jet the EAS of VX is constant and that for VY decreases, the IAS of VX increases and VY decreases and the TAS of both increases. This is complicated by the fact that we often make the simplistic assumption in basic training that EAS and IAS are the same, for example in statements like 'the aircraft stalls at the same speed at 5000ft as it does in the circuit'. If this assumption is made then we get yet another answer.

A better question would have been:

Q. Which answer correctly completes the following statement?

For a jet aircraft, ignoring the effect of compressibility, the IAS of VX (1) and VY (2) with increasing pressure altitude.

A) (1) increases (2) decreases
B) (1) is constant (2) decreases
C) (1) is constant (2) is constant
D) (1) increases (2) increases

Bad wording is usually caused by translation errors. Once errors are spotted the questions are referred back to the JAA Subject Expert Teams (SETs) for remedial action.

[Keith.Williams.]

I agree with much of what you have said alex, but think you are being a bit optimistic about the effectiveness of the remedial action process. This type of question was the cause of much controversy about 2 years ago. It was then removed for remedial action and has now returned with little evidence of improvement.

Now for the good news....The appeals regarding this question in the June exam have been accepted. All students got the marks for it.

Anyone who took the POF exam in June should also be thankful that they did not take it in May. The national stats have just been released. Only 30.3% of students passed it!


Problem? ......What problem?

[Alex Whittingham]

I was being polite.