View Full Version : Telling a student they shouldn't fly...
justanotherflyer
5th Jun 2003, 20:16
I'd be interested to hear of experiences from any instructors who have come to the conclusion a student is not fit, attitude or skill-wise, to pilot an aircraft, and will most likely be a danger to others if they pursue their training to solo level or beyond.
How have instructors gone about dealing with such a situation if it arises.
In researching / reflecting on this question I've come across food for thought in the following article. Perhaps someone could comment on the themes therein.
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182666-1.html
tacpot
5th Jun 2003, 20:59
I think Rick Durden has the situation pretty well described:
If you are an experienced instructor and have flown with someone enough to know a bad day from an average day, and if their average performance puts them "over the line", you have an obligation to them to help them understand the risk that their flying is putting themsleves, and others into. I think the obligation does extend to helping them fix the problem, if they will let you. And possibly it goes as far as not charging them for your time in trying to help.
As Rick say, a high time instructor may only come across four or five individuals who cannot be made safe. This means that probably only 40-50 will come to your attention as potentially being very unsafe, out of these probably half will refuse help, so you may have to give free (post PPL) training to 20 odd pilots in your career (say one a year). But you will have saved their lives! And they will have probably spent alot of cash on learning to fly anyway, some of which hopefully has come your way before you feel the need to step in and 'suggest' extra training.
The biggest issue I can see is that the source of the problem is likely to be psychological, and hence you have to become something of a flying "shrink" to effect a true cure. This is obviously not something that every instructor is capable of. If you have read M. Scott Peck's book "A Road Less Travelled", you will know enough about what might be involved in helping someone overcome the problem.
maflsc
5th Jun 2003, 21:49
Only once has my school had to put in a student progress notes in big red letters " when this student steps into an aircraft neither the student or the poor bedraggledn structor has any semblance of control"
This happens and you try to guide the student to another hobby because they will never make the grade.
In the military it is quite easy, although getting the higher paid help to agree is sometimes difficult.
Throughout their training all student sorties are written up and an objective assessment of performance made. The student gets a copy, which they sign and nothing can be added to the original. All shortcomings are recorded in full. Further, regular reports are raised (fortnightly/monthly) which are commented on by CFI and Squadron Commander and again signed by the student, thus ensuring adequate supervision.
If a student is not achieving the objective standards they are interviewed and debriefed on their shortcomings and given a remedial training package that should result in them achieving the standard. Further failures result in a more formal warning and leave the student in no doubt that they are not making the grade. Ultimately they are informed that a trip, if not passed to a satisfactory standard will result in suspension from training. Failure results in another sequence of events.
At this point they are wheeled into the office to receive the pronouncement;
"OK Bloggs, what does your mother call you?"
"Martin sir."
"Well Martin, you're chopped"
No further ceremony is required - we've buried enough who were given the benefit of the doubt!
mad_jock
7th Jun 2003, 08:47
I have luckly only had one checkride student who I wouldn't get in car with never mind a plane.
What should we do if we think a pilot is mentally unbalanced.
The guy I was with went mental with aggression as soon as he was told to hold. Handeling skills were fine but it was the personality change which occured as soon as ATC wouldn't let him do what he wanted.
What should we do?
A wee phone call to medical at Gatwick?
MJ
Crossunder
8th Jun 2003, 22:38
Well, where I used to work 'twas all pretty simple.
If the student didn't follow the Master Progress Plotter, MPP (grade sheet) he'd get an overall grade of "U" (Unable/Unsafe). A few of these and it's off to the evaluation board, EVB, which would either kick him/her out or allow him/her to continue, perhaps on Special Monitoring Status, SMS.
Explain the required standards, grade consistently and let the student what is expected for each sortie. Then it's not just you being an ass when the student doesn't perform; 'cause it's all there in the MPP. A "good" was required; you performed to a "Fair" or "Unable"; sorry, but you're not what we're lookin' for, Mack.
As an Instructor Pilot you're responsible for the future passengers of this aspiring pilot. Make sure you're not going to second-guess your actions when he /she ends up being responsible for the deaths of 200-some souls!
MJ
Tough call. Never come across one like that. If the checkout was substandard then retraining is easy to recommend and most people will accept it, but it's not easy to stop someone from flying if they have acute air rage.
Was he just having a bad day?
Then again in your part of the world, where else could he rent an aircraft if you deemed him to be "in need of additional training" for whatever reason. You don't have dozens of airfield with flying schools up there. If he really was a fruit cake then you can aford to lose that kind of business before he does some damage either to himself of somebody or something else.
Having said that I don't know what I would have done there and then if that situation arose. It's all very easy to ponder in front of a keyboard.
Only problem you then face if he is unhinged and you just obliterated his ego is remembering to shower without a curtain!!!
jsf :D :D
mad_jock
10th Jun 2003, 07:40
To be honest I was more shocked than anything.
Everything had gone wonderfully before that.
The flight he got held for was the helimed on a Alpha callsign. So fair doo's for the boys, let them go and shovel some poor sod off the road.
Thankfully he didn't turn up the next day.
1 part of me said well he did actually do what they told him to.
The other part said whats is actually wrong with this guy?
Didn't like it, lets hope its a one off.
MJ
RVR800
10th Jun 2003, 20:16
Most people are aware of their shortcomings
so this is rarely an issue
Quite often the lack of confidence in their only
issue and they when given the all clear for
Ex 14 they bottle it..
DeltaT
20th Jun 2003, 15:16
Ive had a student go mental on me, luckily enough we just landed, as Id hate to think what would have happened if we were still in the air. Threatening my life and punching the plane etc etc. It took me a while to get over and really shook me up. However after much advice, a wrote a full report to CHIRP and CAA.
When you operate as a QFI etc, you need a lawyer purched on your shoulder.
DUTY OF CARE is the magic word.
The more the student is considered to be a loose cannon, the lower his overall standard, the greater the duty of care is required of you as his instructor.
Can you justify every action you have taken if it ever got to court? Is there anything written in the student's file which the lawyers would feel incriminating; a god send to the other side?
What does your gut feeling tell you?
Any chinks in the armour could prove to be very expenses in damages.
Take a great deal of care my friends.
Hilico
22nd Jun 2003, 05:21
Were these characters so warped that pointing out that 'a delay simply means you spend more time in the air!' wouldn't have fixed it instantly? If they don't love flying that much then it's the chop, instantly.
My instructor in the States told me of a student who decided he needed the toilet 5 minutes before they were due to land. To my instructors amazement this student unlocked the window and attempted taking a leak out said window.
On landing the student was led straight to the CFI's office and his career in commercial aviation ended there and then.
Unbelievable but this story IS true and has been backed up by three other instructors at the school he was instructing at back then. :eek:
VFE.