white spots in the eyes !

[A and C]

I was about number six at the hold at shoreham yesterday when the guy infront of me turned on his strobe , this being on the top of the fin was right in front of my face !, further observation showed that most of the aircraft ahead of me had the strobes flashing.

On a bright sunny day this irritating but on a dull day it can be harmfull to your vision.

So guys how about turning on the strobes (and the transponder ) as you enter the runway if we all did this it would be a good indication to all that there was an aircraft on the runway and that it was not safe to land , five aircraft at the hold with lights flashing add nothing to flight safety.

[Maxflyer]

I fly a Robin HR200. The startup section of the checklist is as follows:- Fuel On, Master On, Strobe Light On etc, etc,.

I follow this listing as a matter of course, irrespective of conditions. Am I wrong to do this?

TJ

[Evo]

five aircraft at the hold with lights flashing add nothing to flight safety


Not sure I agree. It may not be of much benefit at the hold, but around parked aeroplanes it certainly is. A strobe is an indication to anybody near the aeroplane that it's active, so keep away. I wouldn't like people to wait until they are lined up on the active runway.

Like tmybr every checklist that I've used has anti-collision lights on before starting, and they're not turned off until after the engine stops at the end of the flight.

[rupetime]

My checklist includes putting strobes on as part of the run up checks so its on when i rejoin the taxi way to hold.....last weekend an aircraft pulled up behind me at the pumps with strobes on, again its part of my checks when clear of the runway to switch these off but perhaps not part of his or maybe the downside of doing checks committed to memory when not all are committed !!

rt

[FlyingForFun]

Let's not confuse stobes with beacons. A stobe is a very high intensity white light, which flashes for a very brief period. It is different to a red rotating beacon, which is relatively low intensity.

The beacon (assuming you have one, of course) should be switched on before starting the engine, and switched off after shutting down. It warns others on the ground that the engine is running, or may shortly be running.

The strobes should be switched on before takeoff, and switched off after landing, unless you're in cloud or fog in which case they should be switched off. They are there to help other pilots spot you visually. They can cause temporary blindness if viewed from too close, which is why they should not be used in cloud (where the reflections from the cloud can blind the pilot) or on the ground (where you are in close proximity to others, who may be blinded by them).

The vast majority of check-lists I've seen have supported this view. In those aircraft I've flown with check-lists that suggest something else, the instructor who has done my checkout has pointed out that I may like to modify the check-list and turn the lights on and off at a more appropriate time.

FFF
------------

[DBChopper]

I have to agree with FFF.

It really does depend on the type of light used. Yes, a beacon should be on from before engine start to after engine stop, but any additional strobes should be used with consideration for others in close proximity.

As one of my instructors once told me, it's a check list, not a do list. Yes, the items are listed for a reason but some pilot initiative and discretion is allowed. Think you may be blinding someone at the hold? Switch 'em off...

DBChopper
:ok:

[flyingwysiwyg]

Also agree with FFF,

I switch strobes and landing light on at the hold before lining up. Beacon remains on whilst engine running.

FWyg

[knobbygb]

I agree in theory with A and C - I would prefer to turn them on when entering the runway and off after vacating, but many of the aircraft I fly have a combined 'anti-collision light' switch for the strobes and beacon, so there's no choice.

A couple of times I've left the strobes off, intending to turn them on when ready for departure and not realised until after landing that they've been off the whole time. An extra item written on the checklist in the pre-takeoff checks soon sorted this out.

[Bodie]

further observation showed that most of the aircraft ahead of me had the strobes flashing.

Sounds to me like you might not have seen them otherwise. I can't see how anything that makes your position obvious to other can be described as "irritating".

Off the thread a little here but I think one of the coolest looks in aviation is an aircraft on final, at dusk with it's beacons and strobes going.

Bodie

[Keef]

I was taught that the red beacon light should always be ON when the master switch is ON - an important safety consideration. Ours is never switched off: it comes on with the master.

The flashing strobes, on the other hand, are very distracting. Those, I was taught, go on as you line up for takeoff - the old "Lights, Camera, Action" bit.

[Dufwer]

I trained in a C152 and never used the strobes (do they have them?), only the beacon, which was put on before start up and off after shut down. I recently did a conversion to a PA28 and was surprised to find that the aircraft did not have a beacon. Wherever the checklist said beacon I was told to subsitute strobes. I know the aircraft has a valid C of A. In aircraft like this you do not have an option but to taxi with stobes on. I agree with A and C that it is annoying but safety must come first.

D

[FlyingForFun]

Dufwer, very interesting point.

My Europa also has strobes but no beacon. I don't turn any lighting on when I'm taxying. I feel that keeping a good lookout and not using the strobes is safer than turning my strobes on and risking blinding people. Not sure on this one though - what do others thing?

FFF
-------------

[Circuit Basher]

FFF - never flown an aircraft with strobes, so this is hypothetical (but something which I have previously considered to be a 'good plan'). I'd aim for switching on the Beacon / A/c Light before the 'Clear Prop' shout. If the aircraft didn't have a beacon, then I would fire up the strobes for the duration until the donk was making a racket, then I'd turn them off if:

a. I'm doing a night sortie (due to the fact that strobes really irritate the hell out of me close up at night and I wouldn't want to inflict similar grief / night blindness on fellow pilots),

b. I'm at an airfield or in a situation where it looks like there's going to be a long hold or a queue at the hold / power checks.

Then as part of the pre-takeoff checks, I'd put them back on.

[RichyRich]

I thought I was losing it... I haven't seen a Strobe switch in the PA28's I get to go in, but know that they're on when I have the anti-collision on. Then I saw knobbygb's post....

I suppose you could always reach over and pop the circuit breaker? If its separate from the beacon... I don't think I would though.

[A and C]

It would be very tempting to start calling you names for hinting that I cant see an aircraft at 20 yards without the strobe lights running in good day light.

I can only guess that you are one of these people who swans about in one of those dayglo jackets on sunny days and trys to blame everyone else when some thing goes wrong and suports the nanny state.

The most powerful safety tool that I have is common sence and that tells me that tells me that strobes like the transponder should be put on as you enter the runway , they should NOT be used to blind other pilots.
Just try holding next to some idiot at night who has the things running.

It is nice to see that FFF also uses common sence as a safety tool and not blind obediance to "check lists" (or is it a "do list" that most of you are using ?).

[Bodie]

A and C

What an obsurd post. Nanny state? where the heck did all that come from?

[englishal]

I agree, Anti-col on before engine start, stobes on when entering the runway and off again when clear of the active........Though I have had instructors disagree and say that the stobes should only come on with the Nav lights, which should only come on when needed. I prefer to be seen, so always use strobes if I've got them.

Also if I'm taxying at night parallel to the runway, pointing out onto final, I may turn off the landing light so as not to distract anyone on final [if someone is inbound]. Its all common sense.

By the way, is it actually legal to taxy with NO lights [beacon / strobe] on? Can't remember where I heard it, but someone once told be that whenever the engine is on then a flashing light of some sort should also be on so I guess if you don't have a beacon, then Strobes should be on.......

Cheers
EA:D

[Dufwer]

I've been trying to get info from the CAA website as to the legality of taxing without any lights on. No luck yet, I don't seem to have the knack of extracting info from them yet :( My PPL air-law book, the Jeremy Pratt JAR edition, mentions that if the aircraft is fitted with a beacon then it must be on in the air and on the ground while the engine's are running. No mention of having stobes on if a beacon is not fitted. Perhaps it is legal to taxi without any lights on for non-beacon aircraft. Anybody else have more info?

D

[Gerund]

A quote from a Cessna POH I have in front of me, in bold type, and preceded by a triangle with an exclamation mark in it, followed by:

WARNING

Strobe lights should be turned off when taxying. Ground operation of the high intensity anti-collision lights can be of considerable annoyance to ground personnel and other pilots. .......................

In the front of the POH, a WARNING is described as 'an operating procedure, technique, or maintenance practice which may result in personal injury or loss of life if not carefully followed.'

Well, at least for Mr Cessna it seems clear. Leave the strobes off until you have finished taxying, ie lined up ready for take-off, and switch off when the landing roll is complete.

[eyeinthesky]

It's interesting that more than a few people have mentioned that they 'always turn the landing light and strobes on at the holding point'.
It is worthwhile considering the effect on the likes of A and C. They really have no benefit to you in preventing collisions at this stage, and should not be on. If they are not selectable separately from the beacon, you might consider whether you should not turn them off when you arrive at the hold and are doing your runup checks and waiting to enter the runway (it should be pretty obvious that your engine is running and no-one should be walking about there anyway!). You can switch them on as you enter the runway as part of your line-up checks (see below).
If you notice even the big airliners only use the wingtip strobes when they are actually on the runway or airborne. Watch an aircraft waiting to cross 27L at LHR and you will see that many just have the beacon on until they enter the runway and then turn the wingtip strobes on until they have vacated, when it is back to beacon only. They are a high intensity aid to being spotted which is only really relevant in the air or on the runway.

Consider also that having your landing and/or strobe lights on at the hold at night can spoil your own or others' night vision, and common airmanship dictates that if you are waiting for landing traffic then strobes and landing lights should be off to prevent dazzle at a crucial part of his flight.

Other ideas have been to use the aircraft nav lights as an indication that it is or is about to be live (again commonplace in the commercial world) and then put the strobes on on the runway.

There have been a couple of articles which suggest that the use of strobes in bright sunlight is of no use anyway.

Whatever system you use, I always teach the following as a line-up check, which seems to ensure all the necessary parts are on before you leap into the air. When actually lining up, the mnemonic SPLITT comes into play:

S trobes ON
P itot heat ON (to prevent burnout earlier)
L anding Light ON
I nstruments (Ts and Ps, DI, compass and runway direction agree)
T ransponder ON
T ime (noted for airborne time etc).

All of this can be done very easily as you enter the runway.

[A and C]

Aaaaah ! Music to my ears Strobes on to let aircraft on approach see you landing lights to cut the bird strike risk and transponder on to protect you from TCAS equiped aircraft and all as you enter the runway without the aid of a "Do list" sorry "check list".

So nice to see so much common sence in one place !.