FTO Bars

[Touch'n'oops]

Currently here at BAe in Jerez there is debate on whether or not to wear certain bars with the uniform. Wearing the bars is optional.


We have a system that awards:

-1 Gold small bar for Pt1
-1 Gold bar for CPL
-2 Gold bars for IR

Just like to say that only a few here wear the bars before IR.

So I ask for pilots inputs from other training estblishments.

Do you wear yours?
Do you have to?
And what do you think about it?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Its naff.

The only purpose of bars is so that aircraft hierarchical structures can be maintained and that pax/airport staff can readily know by whom they are being addressed.

None of which applies to a PA28 on a sunny afternoon in Andalucia.

If its the rules then its only at the behest of the marketing/sales/pr department.

WWW

[Keygrip]

At a lot of the USA schools (the big ones, that is) the bars are a mandatory part of the uniform.

The colour of shirt differentiates between student and instructor - but the main job of the bars (at the last professional place I worked at) was to advise the "dispatch staff" of the level of supposed competence of the person who was asking to be given the keys to an aircraft.

At a school with over 400 students - of which dispatch personally knew, maybe, twenty - it was a useful system to stop a pre-solo student being given the keys to a King Air.

The system only failed when a 'two bar' dispatch intern told (three bar) instructors that they did not have the authority to cancel their own training flight due to the weather (humongous thunderstorm outside at the time). According to dispatch, you had to have four bars to be able to cancel your own flight (of which you were the Captain). Go figure.

[p.savage]

It's hardly naff!

I think its great that some FTO have the use of uniforms including bars, because at the end of the day it is preparing a student for an airline environment, of which uniform is a part.

And- you dont have to worry about what to put on everytime you fly, or how your fashionable you are.

Savage

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

p.savage - no, I'll think you'll find its naff.

Wait for the day you actually fly a commercial flight and then savour the stripes on your shoulder. Don't shoot your bolt on a PA28.

Similarly PPL's wearing military flying suits is irretrievably naff unless they are in an aeros competition.

Don't even ever think about a sheepskin flying jacket.

WWW

[VFE]

Hell's bell's. I thought this was gonna be a thread on FTO bars of the drinking variety! How dissapointing. :(

For the record I think you have the best FTO bar there in Jerez, what with the sun, good prices and swimming pool lurking a few paces away awaiting the splashtastic arrival of that annoying tart with the stripe on his shoulder after his PT1 during that sultry Friday night on the sauce! Great planning there......

WWW has got it right on this topic. :ok:

VFE.

[p.savage]

I stand corrected.

However WWW, my friend. Don't you think any pilot should savour being given any stripes?

Just a thought.

Savage

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Dum dum de Dum, Dum DUm

<studio lights dim to single spotlight on black leather chair>

"Mr Wee Welshman, a transport professional from Cheltenham, your chosen specialized subject is The Bars Of Jerez 1999 - 2001. You have two minutes on The Bars Of Jerez you may Pass if you do not know the correct answer......"

<2 minutes later, raise studio lights>


"Mr Welshman, you answered 47 questions correctly with No passes, a world record and an unbeatable score - congratulations!"


WWW

ps Note to self: reprimand yourself for blatant thread creep.

[Gerund]

p. savage

stripes, bars, or whatever, are for the passengers. Passengers expect them, so we wear them. It makes them feel safe; rather like a doctor in hospital wearing a white coat, although that is fading away. They have no other function apart from that. Bus drivers wear a uniform so that we know, or think we do (!), that they can drive a bus competently. Customs officials wear more bars, and stripes, than pilots so we feel they have the right to rifle through our bags. The list goes on and on. I, for one, await the day that bars for pilots are consigned to the rubbish bin of history.

Any self-respecting pilot puts them on in the crew bus to the airport, and takes them off in the crew bus away from the airport. Or later and earlier, respectively, if at all possible.

So, as far as FTOs are concerned, it is complete nonsense. But, of course, prospective students may feel impressed by the presence of people wearing them - hence the pr people insisting, or encouraging that they be worn.

If you have the option, hold your head up high and ditch them.

[Dufwer]

I heard a story of a ground school instructor strutting his stuff at my local flying club, nice one in the sunny southern part of England. He walked into the flying school one day in his complete uniform: crisp white shirt, four silver bars on the shoulders, wing type emblem on the chest, ray bans on the head, oversized leather flight bag on one hand, leather jacket in the other, flashy watch, perhaps even a gold chain or too around the neck and probably a set of beemer keys in the pocket (poetic license on the last two items). As he put his flight bag down the Red Arrows happened to arrive. Standing with hand on hips, in the middle of the flight school, he announced to all that "I'll just hang around here while these posers pass through" :hmm:

D

[Obs cop]

Gotta agree with WWW on this one.

Military aircrew train long and very hard to achieve their wings. Their ranks (equivilent to bars) are a sign of their seniority. None the less, any military aviator will vividly remember the achievement of their wings, but not necessarily when they achieved certain ranks.

Personally, I think the whole FTO gold bar thing is gimicky and belittles the achievement when you do make it to the RHS. Treasure your licences, qualifications and ratings because they are valued in the flying world.

Only treasure gold bars if you want to impress those with little or no knowledge. IMHO.

[wobblyprop]

this came up in the private forum some months ago.

If its part of the uniform, its part of the uniform.

However, if you appeared at a flying club to hire a plane wearing them the feeling was that you would be laughed out.

[D McQuire]

It really is sad bastard department this stripes lark. I think some people may even have them sewn onto their pyjamas. This is of course just a rumour.

However not for me. I didn´t wear them when I got the PPL and I ain´t wearing them for PT1, PT2, CPL or indeed his Holiness the Pope. It´s bad enough having to wear a tie.

The only ones I´ll be wearing is if and when I graduate. That is it. For one night only. Might make for a nice photo on the night and will probably impress the missus :O

If/when I get a job flying, then I´ll wear them. And why not.

[blue heron]

Was in Bristol Airport couple of days ago and viewed a student from a well known FTO who was probably on a nav ex strutting their stuff down the airport terminal with an unbelievable 4 gold bars on each shoulder......I think he needed shoulder pads for support!

Just didnt look quite right....... sorry but bars should be kept until that first commercial trip.

[Leo45]

I just can't believe it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For those worrying about bars,wings and all that crap, you may find it hard to fit in an uniform with such a developed ego.

There are really some sad bastards out there.


:rolleyes:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

When instucting in Jerez some instructors wore four bars, some wore none. Its fair enough - just - as it is a professional flying job.

I just preferred the inverse snobbery of no bars. Hell - the chances of command hierarchy confusion on board my aircraft with Bloggs and his mate in the back were always somewhat slim.

Each to his own I guess.

Students wearing the bars and finding themselves needing to stroll through busy airport terminals simply need to get a life. They are probably young.

I once saw somebody who had ordered a set of 3 and 2 bar eppaulettes from Transair. He sowed them together and turned up to a flying club BBQ proudly wearing a resplendent 5 bar shoulder which caused a riot of amusement.

WWW

[Delta Wun-Wun]

........Well what about nice shiny medals and a long flowing white silk scarf then..???:= :p .........Oh and why I`m on this CPL is faulty I`ve had it nearly six months now and women are still not throwing themselves at my feet..!!!!!!
Do you think it may be faulty???...shall I ask the CAA for a replacement??:D :D :}

[nasib]

Never mind all this talk of bars. I think everyone should be made to wear a hat so that those of us who wear them for a reason ;) don't stand out quite so much.

Nasib

[long final]

Now if it were gloves, well..... :p

[Touch'n'oops]

Well I think that all this talk has left me in a stronger position. I agree that the bars should be held back for THE graduation. Then on the job after that.

But all said and abuse given, some here still wear the bars!!!!:rolleyes: Keep it up!!:}

[mad_jock]

AFE now actually sell 5 bars.

Bars are in my view are aload of crap on the light aircraft scene.

If your working at a flying school and need to rely on bars to stamp your authority on the punters your in the wrong game.

As for turning up at a strange airfield with a student in the LHS I have never yet been confused with a pax. If you look confident and carry yourself shoulders back and look the part everyone presumes your the PIC what ever your wearing. I have even tried to sneak off when the security gimp was waiting to moan at something in causal dress thet fecker always walks up to me.

MJ

[moggie]

WWW - 4 bars now obligatory for instructors here.

[VFE]

When I was flying my ickle 152 out in the States I would fly into some right pokey little dogholes on x-country flights. I would occasionally see these FTO students and their instructors with gold bars on their shoulders, ray bans across their dial and that air of pompous coolness that would suggest they fly a Lear or something equally as "arousing".

Then I would step outa my ickle 152, trapse across the apron with tatty shorts and t-shirt and a rather nasty looking mexican moustache. My shoulders would not be held back and my step sure as fook weren't springy..... but then it didn't need to be.

The issue here is what role I was in at the time and whether I had to look the part. I didn't need to look the part but the FTO chaps did as they were from an organisation whose purpose is to make money and maintain a reputation.

I would hazard a guess that they were as much against gold bars, shirts and ties as most posting here including myself but thems the rules and like alot of things when training one just has to lap it up and gulp it down.

VFE.

[NinjaBill]

I like sewing gold bars on my underpants, that way, I can wear them where ever i like, and no one will be able to laugh at me.

[FougaMagister]

Oops, sorry! Got onto this thread thinking it would be about drinking holes...

Haha

[Captain Gladiator]

After work I was shopping in Sommerfield with my Uniform and Airport security pass still on.

A security guard asks me if I worked at the Airport as a security guard? I obviousley do not look like much like a pilot.

Take those bars and security passes of when you leave work unless you whant to look like a total prat.