BACX Retreats from Plymouth

[judge11]

BA's regional airline, Citiexpress, continues its relentless retrenchment from regional operations with the announcement of the abandonment of its routes from Plymouth and Newquay to LGW at the end of October this year.

Extremely bad news for the crews in Plymouth and the same goes for the people of the southwest where the nearest BA service is now at Bristol - its a long way from Penzance to Bristol!

It's also ironic, as Evans continues to dismantle the BRAL and Brymon networks in the vain search for profitability, that the birthplace of Brymon should now disappear after only 2 years of incompetent mangement having survived for the past 30 years.

[MarkD]

Could always ask uncle MOL nicely* for Newquay-Gatwick, doesn't FR have some slots there? Alternatively Easy from Luton.

* (give free landing charges, concessions, subsidies, yadda yadda)

From such a remote area, shouldn't Public Service Obligation subsidies be considered?

[mcdonnellluke]

Hello
Is this really true and confirmed as there are no press releases on the BA website confirming this
Luke

[brabazon]

Try this from the Beeb:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/3040243.stm

[ecj]

How about a management [old successful type]/reverse
take-over?

Has anything positive come out of the last two years?

[sluggums]

Having done a lot of Brymon -8 stuff in and out of Ply, if it is true it's very sad indeed 'cause it's a good bunch of guys down there.:ugh:

[agcat]

What a shame. Sutton Holdings attempt to create an airline to maintain this link must have failed????
Would not relish the train journey to London, or the redeye early morning/late night NQY-STN either!!
:mad:

[Tom the Tenor]

Judge 11, your final paragraph says it all about how something good built up over a generation can be ruined in just a few short years. Shameful behaviour from the managers of the world's favourite. What they have done to the spirit of Brymon and City Flyer etc.

[Kremmen]

All we need is FLY BE to do an Exeter/Plymouth - LGW....Newquay has Ryanair after all...

[Fosters Expat]

My thoughts are with everyone down in Plymouth and Newquay.

A great bunch of people to work with, and I wish them all the best. As with most of the closure's that have affected Plymouth over the last few years, again we see the staff finding this information via the local/national media, or as with one department, an internal leak!

It's been an absolute disgrace from day one of the involvement with BRAL/Manx, and ultimately BA's poor management, that have allowed this to happen.

Whilst we are all aware of the difficulties being experienced by airlines, all around the world, news of this degree should always be passed to the staff concerned first. Local news transmissions are totally unacceptable.

So, BACX management, Do you feel this is acceptable again? I really hope that someday this happens to you.

Whilst the Sutton Harbour Holdings deal has seemingly fallen through, I can only hope, that now there is a definate timetable for BA's withdrawal, SHH can arrange something to rescue these flights, and the jobs of my old colleagues.

Again, goodluck to all staff involved with this closure.

[Konkordski]

Is this really true and confirmed as there are no press releases on the BA website confirming this


The day we rely on BA press releases as the primary source of information from BA is the day we're all sh*gged. Why would BA want to make this sort of thing more public than necessary?

[swede-basher]

Seems Air Wales have announced that they intend to start the route.

All over the local news at the moment

[kala87]

ITV late news tonight announced that Air Wales wish to take over the route subject to BA handing over the relevant Gatwick slots.

Flights to be x4 daily as before using 55 seat a/c (presumably ATR42?)

Ryanair's summer schedule has 3 daily rotations to/from Stansted so they will face stiff competition out of EGDG.

[Leclairage]

No surprise really - look back over BA history - BCal, Danair etc. A purchase made out of sheer exclusionary greed that really doesent fit within their core business, then make a 'prudent business decision' to reduce/close things down the line.

BAxxxxds

[martinidoc]

Bring back old Brymon!!

Used to provide an excellent focussed service, before BA

[HZ123]

Had BA not bought Danair / BCAL they both would have gone down the pan. Many of BA senior managers are or were BCAL staff and that explains some of the extreme decisions that have been made. Also the love hate relationship that BA enjoys with LGW.

Despite this I understand why many ex Brymon, BRAL and others will feel aggrieved by BA's pull out from these routes and stations. However, since these units were franchised / purchased much has changed in the market place and what was yesterdays flavour is not todays.

[In trim]

HZ123,

I agree with some of your points, and the downturn of the past couple of years has been 'extreme' - 9/11, SARS, War, etc.

However, let's be honest, BA could never have run aircraft like Dash 8s, ATR 72's etc. at a profit. The moment these operations came out of 'franchise managed' to 'head office managed' (regardless of actual ownership of the franchise) with associated lack of focus and increased cost structure, they were doomed.

And of course BA at the same time removed their own safety net for some routes. Old BA 737 routes which became unprofitable due to the downturn could easily have been transferred to the franchises and operated at a profit. Everyone wins....the passenger sees continuation of a service rather than it being chopped, the franchise gains, BA gains (still gets revenue and feed traffic, without the associated loss).

Oh, I forgot....the Unions! They'd never have let it happen.


:mad:

[Square Wheels]

Yes, it's been a crappy week for all concerned.

We have been bent over the CitiExpress barrel and given a good dose of mishandling.

No special deals for us, unlike some previous bases to get closed.

They are not even guaranteeing courses that have already been assigned from the previous bid. It's all "Well, yes. In theory that should happen, probably..." and all that rubbish!

It's just a shame there's very little option in the wider industry.

Some people will have to retire, others be demoted with "pay protection" (get that carved on stone!) and all of us moved with the aircraft to Manchester.
And the pilots are relatively lucky. We still have jobs even if we can't find out way out of this horrible company. Worse for the groundstaff, caterers, engineers etc. etc. etc.

Everyone is sick of the neverending cutbacks, bad management, bad business plan and bad feeling with no real light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm told that most people on the jets have applications with everyone else too, and they're at the top of this teetering bonsai! Bristol got an unequivocal vote of confidence from David Evans in a local newpaper yesterday, so start looking for houses in Cheshire or Warwickshire, boys.

Poor old Brymon (and BRAL and Manx for that matter!)

[3 Off The Tee]

BID TO SAVE LONDON FLIGHTS

12:00 - 21 May 2003

Flight operator Air Wales has thrown Plymouth a lifeline by offering to run services between the city and London. The move comes after British Airways' announcement it was to withdraw from the route to the capital from October 25.

Air Wales, which already operates services out of Plymouth to Cork, Dublin and Jersey, has announced its intention to take over the route to London Gatwick.

But first the firm must secure the landing slots at Gatwick currently held by BA to safeguard the continuation of the route.

Air Wales' expression of interest came after BA said it was is in talks with other airlines to try and save the Plymouth to Gatwick shuttle service.

And yesterday a cross-party group of nine MPs were told by BA officials, in an emergency summit meeting in London, that the flights should be saved to stop the region becoming cut off.

End.

Leading on from the above

Does anyone know what the chances are of Air Wales securing the slots at Gatwick?

I am presuming this decision would lie with BA releasing them seeing they are the current owner of the four slots they utilise
for the PLH-NQY-LGW service?

That's unless of course BA have plans to use the slots for another route, who knows.

Best of luck to Air Wales securing the service.

Cheers 3 Off The Tee :rolleyes:

[MerchantVenturer]

There is another thread on this site reporting that VLM are looking to start a EXT-LCY route. I understand that reports in a local Devon newspaper have suggested this.

It may be that Devon and Cornwall will suddenly find that, rather than having no flights to speak of to the capital, they will be spoilt for choice.

What must be avoided is an over capacity from the region, otherwise there will be a danger that none of the routes will prosper.

Good luck to these services. At least EXT, PLH and NQY won't have to compete with BRS on a London service. Unless the M4 and Brunel's original mainline become totally eggbound!

[Afterburner]

I've heard that VLM are seriously considering NQY-EXT-LCY and that their sales and marketing director Berhard Jacobs has been talking to EXT. Rumours abound that John Orpin is somehow involved, the bloke behind the ill-fated Celtic Airways service from Plymouth to Brussels a few years ago, but I don't know if it's true.

[Charlie Fox]

BBC lunchtime news says that Air Southwest (aka Sutton Harbour Holdings) are in final negotiations re PLH - NQY - LGW flights.
Dot the i's & cross the t's!!!!!!!!!

The owners of Plymouth City Airport are setting up a new airline to run flights to London after British Airways announced it was pulling out.

Sutton Harbour Holdings today revealed it is in advanced discussions with British Airways about taking over the crucial Plymouth air services to Gatwick - including securing the vital landing slots.

The company has set up a new subsidiary, Air Southwest Limited, which it hopes will take over the Newquay-to- Plymouth-to-Gatwick link when BA pulls out in October.

Air Southwest is also talking about running services to destinations including France and Amsterdam.

The company is already in talks to buy Dash-8 aircraft similar to those currently used on the route by BA.

Duncan Godefroy, managing director of Sutton Harbour Holdings, said today: "We have been is discussions with British Airways CitiExpress for some time about the transfer of the Gatwick routes and slots to our new subsidiary Air Southwest, and those discussions are progressing extremely well.

"We remain committed to securing these vital air links for the region and hope to be in a position to make a formal announcement shortly."

British Airways announced earlier this month it would cease operating the Newquay and Plymouth-to-Gatwick routes from October 26 this year.

Plymouth's business community reacted with dismay, saying that losing the air link with London would be a major blow to the city's economy.

Air Wales, which already runs services from Plymouth to Ireland, soon announced its interest in taking over the route. It was considering its response to today's developments.

Air Southwest is headed by Malcolm Naylor, the Sutton Harbour group's head of aviation strategy.

He is a former managing director of Brymon Airways, which used to operate the Gatwick route but has since been incorporated into BA.

Mr Naylor said: "I'm very excited. It's good to be back in Devon and Cornwall. It may be obvious but we need airline activity to keep the airport running. It's absolutely vital we keep the links to London first and foremost. Without those links the airport would wither on the vine."

Air Southwest is investigating further services linking the South West to other regions of the UK and overseas.

The news comes as Sutton Harbour Holdings announced its seventh successive rise in core profits today.

Finance director Nigel Godefroy said only last week the closure of Plymouth City Airport could cost up to 2,300 jobs and £35 million to the economy.

He added that if the airport were to close and the Royal Navy's Flag Officer Sea Training organisation was to relocate to another airport, the region's prosperity would be hit hard.

Today Plymouth City Council leader, Cllr Tudor Evans, welcomed the news of the new airline. "The situation is now looking incredibly brighter than it was just a couple of weeks ago," he said. "Sutton Harbour Holdings are obviously very committed to Plymouth and the region and it is fantastic to see.

"From the city council's point of view, we welcome the efforts that are being made to secure the future of the airport.

"The most important thing to us is that the routes and slots are secure because we have a lot of investors in Plymouth who rely on these air links."

Charles Howeson, chairman of Plymouth Chamber of Commerce, described the announcement as 'excellent news'.

He added: "Sutton Harbour Holdings probably have a very good plan for the airport and obviously we must wish them well and support them to the hilt on this."

Plymouth MP and Transport Minister David Jamieson added: "If Sutton Harbour Holdings secures the air services in the future it will be extremely good news to everyone concerned. It will put an end to this period of uncertainty. Hopefully we can now not only look forward to the new service but also build on it for the future."

Plymouth's business community was united in welcoming today's announcement.

Chris Bailey, financial director of Roborough-based X-Fab UK Ltd, said employees used the airport as often as twice a week to travel to the firm's other sites in Germany and America.

After hearing that BA was pulling out of Plymouth, the company described the news as a 'backward step for Plymouth'.

However, after hearing the latest news, Mr Bailey said: "This is very positive news not only for Plymouth but for the region as a whole. For a company that has international customers it really is great news."

Steve Vickers, deputy managing director of Ernesettle- based Kawasaki Precision Machinery (UK) Ltd - which uses the service regularly - said: "It is great to see a company like Sutton Harbour Holdings is prepared to put its money where its mouth is to support the area.

"The news is sure to bring back confidence in the area and local businesses are sure to support the company in its approach. Air links to London are vital for us and other companies which look to fly in clients and managers on a regular basis."

Jo Hartop, head of communications at The Wrigley Company, said: "The protection of this air route is good news for Plymouth, the South West and for the businesses in the area."

John Taynton, spokesman for the South West Regional Development Agency - which last week agreed to £4.5 million of funds to Sutton Harbour Holdings for improvements to the runway at the airport - added: "This is very positive news for the South West region and we await further developments with great interest."

[MarkD]

hmm... private sector operator already operating PLH services gazumped by an (as yet non existent) airline owned by the airport (which is subsidised by local quangos...)

what was wrong with Air Wales then?

[Charlie Fox]

Mark D
Don't think BA would give them the slots at LGW

[swede-basher]

So, let me get this straight then. An AIM listed property company with a market cap of 20m has announced it's own airline which, as yet, is unfunded, has no AOC and no aircraft and yet is going to start the PLH-LGW in around 20 weeks:rolleyes:

A company with an AOC and aircraft that stepped in to run the previous routes BA CitiExpress dumped that has a high net worth backer worth around 100 million is not CitiExpresse's prefered option.

Something isn't right here.

[MerchantVenturer]

I suppose the salient fact is that Sutton Holdings owns Plymouth Airport and presumably would prefer to run their own services from it.

I would surmise that this story will run for a bit longer before a final decision is made public.

If, and a big if, Sutton Holdings gets the airline operating and manages to fly extra routes from PLH to the likes of, say Amsterdam and Brussels, how will this affect the rumoured services to be starting from EXT by VLM and Flybe?

And can PLH really be viable in the long term given that it is ever only likely to be able to fly medium sized turbo props?

[MarkD]

MerchantV

PLH isn't going to need A380s now is it :D

A fleet of Dash 8 Q400s might be sufficient?

As for the "Brymon 2" at PLH - very inside track. No doubt BA will franchise the route to them, encourage them to shove Air Wales off ORK-PLH, maybe even restart ORK-LGW... and then buy Brymon 2 and incorporate into mainline... then flog all the Dashes :D :D :D

[MerchantVenturer]

Mark,

The point I was trying to make was that PLH is in competition with EXT just up the road.

Given that there is no scope to extend PLH, and I believe South Hams to be a diversion not worthy of consideration, can PLH continue indefinitely as a tiny turbo prop only field?

Furthermore NQY has two FR rotations a day to STN that give Cornwall pax access to continental travel.

Then there is BRS a bit further up the road from EXT that also has a daily feed from NQY.

It may be that the great and the good of Plymouthare quite happy to be ferried around Europe by turbo prop. If not, I question PLH's long term survival given the alternatives all around it.

[GROUNDHOG]

I have to agree with Merchant Venturer about Plymouth, it competes directly with Exeter and since a great deal of business users live in the South Hams anyway I suggest it is quicker to whiz up the M5 than it is to negotiate Plymouth's traffic.

You can now fly NQY/BRS thanks to Skybus and as MV says we in the far South West can connect to Stansted as well for international services so PLY is not really relevant to us.

My vote would still go to someone operating into Gatwick ( who though is the question) as this connects the South West with the South East and also all those International/US routes which STN and LCY really do not.

Quick route to an AOC - buy a Company that already has one and add the type - now let's think who might be for sale at the right price?

Merchant Venturer - It would appear the Trislander you asked about belonged to a chap who wanted to start schedules ex Bristol but it never happened. Ther was a story that it caught light on its planned demonstration flight in front of the Mayor and all the VIP guests but I do not have any other details?

[MerchantVenturer]

GROUNDHOG,

Many thanks for info re Trislander - fascinating story.

Perhaps I'm the only person to have this aircraft on cine and now transferred to video tape as well - a little bit of what might have been in BRS's history.
;)