ONCs on CD-ROM

[compressor stall]

A long a futile struggle...

Trying to locate/confirm the existence of a CD-ROM with most of the World's 1:1 million ONCs on in in scanned Raster viewer format, or indeed any format!

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Also, has anyone had any expereince with CD-ROM Atlases of the world, and could recommend a good one, with coverage at or better than 1:1million?

Cheers

CS

[Notso Fantastic]

This is fascinating- what's an ONC? Will
Microsoft Encarta World Atlas do?

[compressor stall]

Not sure of the level of sarcasm in the above reply, but here goes anyway... :}

An ONC is a large chart of 1:1million Published by the US and other govts. (Notice that the US govt publish the Siberian one I have). The open out size is about 1x1.5 metres.

8 degree by 8 degree rectangles are depicted on the charts, and differing levels of aeronautical detail are provided from LSALTs to NDBs etc.

I have no experience with the aforementioned Microsoft Encarta Altas. What is the average scale of the most detailed maps over remote parts of the world - amazon, siberia, congo, altai mountains, PNG etc?

Regards

CS

[Genghis the Engineer]

I confess it's not technology that I find much need for myself, but I'm pretty certain Jeppesen were demonstrating something that pretty much matches your needs at the last Farnborough airshow.

A quick look on their website indicates that what you want may be at this link (http://www.jeppesen.com/wlcs/application/commercewf?origin=category.jsp&event=link(browse)&wlcs_catalog_sourceKey=wlcs_categories&wlcs_catalog_destinationKey=wlcs_siblings&wlcs_catalog_category_id=CNS1N2)

Not cheap though,

G

[compressor stall]

Thanks Genghis, but I could not find the ONCs scanned on CD-ROM anywhere in their website. :confused:

My quest is not for actually flying data at this stage - its more topographic than anything else, that may hopefully one day lead to a private flight there.

[Notso Fantastic]

Not being sarcastic! Having learnt to fly 36 years ago, I have no idea what an 'ONC' is! No company is going to publish maps cheaply on CDRom and destroy their market for paper sales. Even Encarta World Atlas with so many named places in the world has to shortchange you somewhere to get it on CDRom, and it is the topographical department that starves. There are other simple cheap World Atlases on CDRom, but I don't think they will be much better. From the sound of it, the Times World Atlas may be best for your purposes because individual topographical charts will make your eyes water, but you can find on the web excellent mapping resources with very good suppliers, but they will cost.

[Gerund]

Notso Fantastic

It isn't so much when you learnt to fly, it's more a case of where! If you had flown in some of the more exotic parts of the world, where any navaids were destroyed years ago, I am sure you would have come across them.

ONC stands for Operational Navigation Chart, having a scale of 1:1,000,000 and covering most parts of the globe; published by Defense Mapping Agency, St Louis, Missouri, and copyright The United States Government.

They really are superb charts, albeit often a bit out of date, and should be available at any good flight shop.

Unfortunately, none of the CD Rom Atlases that I have seen come close. In fact, the ones I have seen are, quite frankly, disappointing.

[compressor stall]

NotSO

My apologies - I inferred wrongly! A European based pilot i guess could never use one, but when you want maps of Siberia and other parts of the world, they are an excellent resource!

Here in the Antipodes, AUSLIG have published all 1:250K maps of Australia on a double CD-ROM. All are the scanned topo maps in Raster format. For AUD$99 or 33 quid, it's fantstic value!

As Gerund said, most CD based atlases I have seen are rather disappointing when wanting countours, rivers etc.

The RAAF in Australia publish the charts for Aus and PNG, but the PNG charts are now as rare as hens teeth.

On line sales of ONCs are

1. Jeppesen: USD$4 and USD$25 for courier for a bundle (No australia, southern Africa, Patagonia, or Russia/Mongolia)

2. Map Link: $3.60 and $11.20 postage per chart.

Anyone know anything cheaper..

[Gerund]

Did a little bit of searching and it seems you can get worldwide coverage, based on the ONCs, on 4 x CD roms. 1800 mb of data!!

The web reference for details and also contact details for purchase is: http://164.214.2.59/publications/vmap0.html

If anyone makes contact for the price, please let us know! If the price is reasonable, I will be ordering a set. :D

[compressor stall]

Thanks Gerund - EXACTLY what I am after! I think!

I'll let you know how I get on. I'm getting in touch with the Aust office.

[compressor stall]

from
http://www.ga.gov.au/ and download the product catalogue. Its the VMAP Level ) under Topographic Data.

More details here: http://www.auslig.gov.au/meta/meta12.htm

Thanks for the pointers from your link Gerund... they helped in refining a google search!

I'll let you know how I get on. I just need to know that the Data is as complete as a standard ONC, and that you can print off the CD to form the ONC equivalent charts.

CS

[Tinstaafl]

What a pity that WACs don't seem to have the world coverage of ONCs. I prefer the tinting system used for WACs.

[Notso Fantastic]

Gerund, <It isn't so much when you learnt to fly, it's more a case of where! If you had flown in some of the more exotic parts of the world, where any navaids were destroyed years ago, I am sure you would have come across them.> I may be European based, but I've spent 23 years overflying Siberia, the Arctic, Australia, Zaire at night dodging Cbs, but I ain't never heard of ONCs, WACS, AUSLIG! How did I survive?

[Gerund]

Och, Notso, it doesn't really matter that much.

The operative phrase was 'flown in'. 'Overflying' is a wee bit different.

[compressor stall]

Product ordered. I will report back in a few days when it arrives.

CS

[Genghis the Engineer]

Dare I say it, there may be a lesson in this thread for most of us about use of acronyms and abbreviations.

I once confused the &&&& out of an instructor by talking about FTOs. I of course was talking about Flight Test Observers, he thought I was talking about Flying Training Organisations, and in the context complete airbollox.

Sometimes shorthand isn't the best way to communicate. No doubt many of us would have understood quicker "1:1,000,000 topographic charts".

G

[Tinstaafl]

Perhaps not, Ghengis. ONCs are a military 'thing' whilst WACs are ICAO. There's a significant difference between the orographic tinting between ONCs & WACs.

The colour discrimination for elevation is more coarse on an ONC and one similar, common colour has a completely different meaning: 'Greenish' on an ONC means 'generally level terrain irrespective of its elevation'. while 'greenish' on a WAC means 'terrain below 1640' (or whatever the exact number is).

NOT the same charts at all!

[compressor stall]

Spot on as usual Tinny.

I too prefer the hypsometric tinting of the WACs as well as the two o'clock shadow. But as we know, they have not yet been produced for everywhere yet, so ONC is our next best hope. Especially in remote parts of the world.

If this is the style of map I think it is, then you can nominate the data you wish to see. I think I'll have the colour de-selected! I find it confusing to see a big green patch way up in the mountains!

CS

[Genghis the Engineer]

"military (ONC) style topographic charts"

?

G

[compressor stall]

It has arrived in its package, and the manual is the size of a small telephone directory.... :confused:

I will let you know how its going when i get a chance - a bit difficult as the house is full of visitors at the moment.

BTW - at this stage it appears to be a "build your own" map style program. you specify lat and long, and then direct say, contours roads and airports to be built. Or on another map you might just want rivers and towns. etc.

CS

[redsnail]

Genghis,
Yep, the Military generally use ONC's, civvies use WAC's. I've used both because the ONC's are usually cheaper and cover a much bigger area. (when I was in Oz)
I am sure you can get them via Transair and the like.

[Gerund]

compressor stall:

How is it going with the ONCs on CD-Rom? Waiting with baited breath!

[compressor stall]

Sorry I have not posted here about it yet - still trying to get to the bottom of how to use it.

It is horrendously user unfriendly.

You load it up from the master disk, then there are 4 other regional disks.

In order to load a view, you hit load, have to then burrow to the CD rom, and drop down two levels (and not particulalry well labelled either) and load that.

Then you have to change the file name, then select a DHT or LAT file, then select an ENV file and THEN load a symbol set.

In some of these there are more than one option and the telephone directory does not tell you the difference (Say between a DHT and LAT), but in compiling maps there seems to be different amounts of the same data depending on which symbol file i've loaded. Still waiting to work out the trend.

Once you have mastered all that then there is a 500*500 pixel screen on the left, a small map of the world on the right, and below a feature list.

On the small map of the world, you zoom in of out on the selected area, then below select from the extensive list all the features. Elevation, pack ice, camps, inland water, streams, industry, airports etc.
Then hit draw. Sometimes it takes a little while, but not too much - (I have a P3 700mhz processor) - obviously dependent on how many features you choose.
The output is nothing like an ONC really - its a vector based map It's made up of short straight lines, however all the data seems to be there. There appear to be a few glitches in the program though - some islands in the Torres Strait (between Australia and PNG) were missing on one draw but there on another, but small partially submerged rocks are there.

I am also having trouble trying to get the output any bigger than 532 *532 pixels. If you want say a country like venezuala and all the airports on it, you either have to zoom in and print 5 maps at 532 size to get the required detail. Very user unfriendly.
There may be a way to do it - its just that I have not found it yet!

I'll keep you updated, and if you want a sample map, drop me a PM with your email.

CS

[compressor stall]

Just worked out how to do the resizing.

You save as hardcopy in a EPS file (encapsulated Post Script) and then that allows reizing without loss of detail of the data.

Trouble is I cannot find any file to read EPS at the moment - any suggestions? It says word will, but word wont...! Word 97.

The Hardcopy Output Dialog provides the setup and print facility for generating an Encapsulated Postscript output of the contents shown in the map window. The user is responsible for printing this file to a Postscript Level 1 printer (Level 2 for color). An Encapsulated Postscript (EPS) plot may also be pulled into any graphic/image editor or word processor provided that the program provides a full Postscript interpreter. Canvas, Microsoft Word, and Word Perfect are known to include a full interpreter. Adobe Photoshop is only able to read EPS images stored using Photoshop or Adobe Illustrator because it only understands a subset of the Postscript command set for reading and writing raster, not vector, images.

[RomeoTangoFoxtrotMike]

You could try GSview, from the Ghostscript suite of public-domain (-ish) PostScript/EPS/PDF handling software. Try surfing around from:-

http://www.ghostscript.com/gsview/index.htm

HTH

[compressor stall]

Thanks a lot. It works very well.

The files were located at:

ftp://mirror.cs.wisc.edu/pub/mirrors/ghost/ghostgum/gsv44w32.exe

and

ftp://mirror.cs.wisc.edu/pub/mirrors/ghost/AFPL/gs800/gs800w32.exe

I downloaded both, and it used one. Not sure why it says to download both :confused:

CS

Gerund, I'll send you a map to be viewed in the above windows...I'll just create one first.

[RomeoTangoFoxtrotMike]

RTFM (nice nic!)
Why thank-you ;)

I downloaded both, and it used one. Not sure why it says to download both

It's been around the *nix world for some while, but I've not used it under Windoze... :hmm:

The software itself is in two parts; ghostscript, which does all the clever format converting (and printing), and ghostview which displays the files on-screen. I'm not familiar with to what extent that had been integrated under Windoze, hance my suggestion that you might need to surf about a bit/there might be more than one download required.

Thanks a lot. It works very well.
Good. I'm please that it did the biz, without having to resort to Mr G's offerings... :yuk: