BA PLH-NQY-LGW

[Charlie Fox]

British Airways could pull out of their Plymouth-Newquay-Gatwick service sooner than expected, the BBC has learned.

An announcement from BA about the West Country's only air link to Gatwick could come as early as Monday.

It is understood that BA will say it wants to have pulled out of the route by late October, when the winter timetable comes in.

Until now it has said publically that the change could take as long as three years.

BBC business correspondent Neil Gallacher, said: "It's a real challenge to the local economy because there isn't another air link into Gatwick or Heathrow.

"Air travel has turned into a really tough marketplace, BA is under pressure to cut costs like never before."

'Tricky timing'

There is also concern over who might take over the route.

BA said last September that it would find a replacement operator before pulling out.

But on Friday a spokeswoman said that could no longer be guaranteed due to tough market conditions.

Plymouth airport company, Sutton Harbour Holdings, wants to run the service itself, and is still negotiating with BA over the planes and the landing slots.

Neil Gallacher said: "It is far from a done deal with Sutton Harbour.

"And if BA confirm that it is pulling out this autumn, it is tricky timing.

"Any new operator would be kicking off with the winter season when there are not so many passengers around."

[HZ123]

Certainly no surprises here then and would seem to be just a matter of time before BA abandons the majority of the inter - Britain routes they now operate (especially propeller driven ones)

[MerchantVenturer]

"There is also concern over who might take over the route."

Would Air Wales be interested I wonder?

They have some presence in and out of Plymouth at present, and from information on another thread in this forum from an Air Wales employee it seems that airline is looking to expand its fleet and routes.

[richardhall99]

I think that this would be the kind of route that would be good for Air Wales. I think that it would be better for the community in the south west that it continued to be operated into Gatwick with its good connections but I think that Air Wales could pull this one off if they flew into the City airport.

The south west wont be cut off from London completely as Ryanair are operating the Newquay Stansted route twice a day

[marlowe]

Would B.A give the slots into LGW to Air Wales? I doubt that they would as the slots could be used by Citiexpress for other routes

[HZ123]

Marlowe; has hit it right -------- clearly BA will look to release these slots for far better / lucrative routes. Though such routes are a bit thin on the ground at present.

Look to expansion in the newer former Soviet states / former Yugoslavia states perhaps. Alternatively these slots could be made availible for ??????? to start ops from LGW, thus releasing slots at LHR, because that is the ultimate goal.

If all else fails then offer the LGW slots + cash for another carrier to move to LGW.

[MerchantVenturer]

marlowe and HZ123,

What you are both appearing to be saying then is that it is going to be virtually impossible for anyone to pick up the reins when BA pulls out on this route if they won't give up the LGW landing slots.

So, would Air Wales for example be able to get slots into London City from PLH/NQY? Presumably so as they have recently started a three times a day Swansea/Cardiff service to LCY.

I am aware of Ryanair FR-STN but I would have thought that the political and business leaders in the Devon/Cornwall area would be anxious to get a service to replace the BA Citiexpress route as well.

It is a frustrating position for the far west/southwest region that the main airport is so far north - almost in Ryanair terms London (Bristol) Airport. There is no doubt this has an adverse effect on business development in the Plymouth area especially.

[Charlie Fox]

BA have given/sold landing slots at LGW to Aurigny so that they can continue the GCI - LGW route when BA pull out in June. Will they do the same if Air Wales or anyone else takes the PLH-NQY-LGW roue??????

[GROUNDHOG]

My family use the Newquay to Gatwick service regularly and it always has a high load factor ( at good fares) so someone should take it over if slots at Gatwick are obtainable.

As much as I would love to see Air Wales operate the route, for personal reasons, I do not see this is a serious option as a) they are already up to their necks in new and expanding routes and the introduction of new aircraft b) To operate from Newquay ( or Plymouth) effficiently would mean opening a new base which is a huge cost c) Air Wales is very much a Welsh airline and has growth in its own backyaaard yet so why start a route between two points in England. The only reason I can come up with is if someone gives Mr Thomas a good incentive to do so and who would that person or what would that body be?

Much more logical for an existing West Country operator such as Skybus. They of course are also expanding, so again, could they really cope with the extra movements having just started Bristol and Southampton?

Ryanair is still the best and cheapest bet if you want to go to London or the Stansted catchment area and any flight to LCY would compete directly with the FR service but on operating cost alone LCY could never work as long as FR are there.

Neither STN or LCY though are much use if you wish to travel to Sussex or Surrey as by the time you have driven to Newquay, checked in, transfered on arrival at Stansted it is just as quick to drive or get the train. A flight to Gatwick is of course a whole different ball game.

Europe is a big open sky so don't rule out an EC operator that might just add LGW-NQY to an existing service?

If all else fails someone might just have to start another new carrier in the SW since this route cannot be let go .... oh b*gger I was enjoying retirement as well, still if needs must!!

[marlowe]

Charlie Fox u assume that B.A care about regional flying. B.A Citiexpress have a different idea of what regional means compared to the old days of Brymon. Citiexpress are moving more towards european destinations and getting out of the local routes, if the LGW routes from PLH and NQY have to be dropped because B.A think they are not profitable they will, if there is no other airline to pick up the routes B.A DONT CARE!!!!! its not there problem.

[GROUNDHOG]

Good point Marlowe and why should they care. If anyone wants to operate the route, the slots will be down to them, unless it is deal which might involve the whole Dash 8 operation of course.

[marlowe]

I think the deal to take all the Dash8 a/c has fallen through with Sutton harbour holdings besides what would they do with them all? any airline looking to operate these routes need to secure the slots first no slots no routes you can have as many a/c as you like but unless you got somewhere to fly them to you dont have an airline. The LGW slots are crucial for onward connections if you dont secure those not mutch point in setting up an airline

[HZ123]

Form past experience BA et al have historically indulged in the practice of buying/ franchaissing airlines to obtain and use their slots.

We have only to look back at GB airways, that moved most of there LHR op to LGW as part of the franchaisse agreement. The self same thing has been done with Mancs at LHR and Cityflyer at LGW.

Business wise these moves have been sound and have enabled the slots to be put to far more profitable use. So I think most of you are correct BA will utilise the rush hour slots, if they pass anything on to Air Wales it will inevitably be outside of the desired hours.

[MerchantVenturer]

The BBC Bristol local television lunchtime news had a story today about BA Citiexpresss closing the three daily rotations from BRS-NCL. This is the only BA Citx route operated from BRS by turbo prop. That is apart from the morning flight up from PLH and the evening return. Logical I suppose given that BA is to ditch its turbo props and that easyJet is to commence a two rotations a day NCL-BRS from August.

The same news item also mentioned the fact that Ryanair and easyJet were going to announce new routes from BRS, but no timescale was given.

Groundhog,

This is a bit off topic but I wonder if you know the answer to this one.

I have quite a lot of cine/video of BRS going back to the 70s.
I was looking at some scenes over the weekend from the mid 80s and I noticed a BN Trislander parked up, with the logo, Aviation West, written along the side. It was painted white with a blue stripe.

Any information re this airline, which is what I presume it was - perhaps an air taxi? I wonder what happened to it. I can't remember seeing it for years.

[Globaliser]

Found on another message board (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum15/HTML/004011.html) today:-British Airways will withdraw its services to Plymouth and Newquay from London Gatwick and Bristol airports. The last flights will operate on 25 October 2003.

The Commercial Policy for customers travelling to/from Gatwick - Plymouth/ Newquay, Plymouth - Bristol and Bristol - Newcastle after 25 October 2003 is as follows :

To/from Gatwick - Plymouth / Newquay.
1) Rebook on a date before 25 October in the same booking class and cabin as the original ticket as long as this is available.
2) Refund to original form of payment.

There is no Involuntary Re-route options on this route. Customers should take a refund and make their own alternative travel arrangements via train or coach.

To/from Plymouth - Bristol
1) Rebook on a date before 25 October in the same booking class and cabin as the original ticket as long as this is available.
2) Refund to original form of payment.

To/from Bristol - Newcastle
1) Rebook to travel Bristol to Edinburgh or Gatwick/Heathrow to Newcastle in the same booking class as original ticket. Please advise customers that travel between Edinburgh and Newcastle and between Bristol/Heathrow and Gatwick will be at customers own expense.
2) Rebook on a date before 25 October in the same booking class and cabin as the original ticket as long as this is available.
3) Refund to original form of payment.

[GROUNDHOG]

Confirmed on local radio today ( Pirate FM) that route to close with 71 job losses but a BA spokesman did say they would try to offer alternatives to staff - Lagos probably!

BA will also offer assistance to anyone wanting to take on the route - Imagine the scene... can I have the slots please...... no, but you can borrow our phone to ring the scheduling commitee.

SW RDA very shocked and upset... and shortsighted as well it seems if they couldn't see that coming.

Merchant V... it does ring a bell, but I know a man who will know so will revert.

[MarkD]

Seems all very shortsighted to me - look at Ireland, where Aer Lingus dumped its F50 props and now Aer Arann are doing quite nicely with the ATR42 and 72s - of course they do have PSO routes to help!

The disadvantage for pax is that there is no codesharing on the routes EI and RE share so the aerlingus.com website is hampered by a seeming lack of connecting flights, and the punter has to hammer away at sites like Expedia to try and get a result!

Ironically FlyBE with their 146/Q400 dual fleet will be a pointer to whether a "dual strategy" could have worked, where CX could have rationalised to two or three types (146/ERJ/ATR or Dash). With 146s, ERJs, J31s, J41s, Dashes, ATPs and ATRs the maintainence and parts inventory must have been enormous.

[Charlie Fox]

Have heard that crews have been offered jobs based at Manchester as the Dash 8's are relocating there.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/england/devon/3042521.stm

[GROUNDHOG]

Laatest TV reports are that Air Wales have applied to take over NQY - PLY - LGW, route so ignore my opinion!

I am still somewhat suprised as this is further rapid growth but absolutely delighted they are doing so and wish them every success assuming they get the slots!

[Charlie Fox]

Air Wales to take over route
The future of the South West's air link to London looks safe after Air Wales announced it would take over the route.
British Airways (BA) announced on Monday that it would stop its flights between Plymouth, Newquay and Gatwick in October.

Air Wales made a slot application on Tuesday for the right to utilise the available landing and take off rights currently held by BA.

The airline specialises in short haul domestic flights and the company already has a fleet of aircraft based at Plymouth which currently fly to Dublin, Cork and Jersey.

Emergency meeting

The managing director of Air Wales, Adrian Thompson, said he believed that adding Gatwick to the list would compliment their existing services.

The news comes on the day Transport minister and Plymouth MP David Jamieson held an emergency meeting of South West MPs to fight the loss of the flights to London.

Business leaders in Devon said the loss of the air route could lose the region millions of pounds in potential investment.

Some bosses have also claimed it could spell the end of hundreds of jobs in the South West, including 61 BA staff at Plymouth and 10 at Newquay.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/england/devon/3042521.stm

Published: 2003/05/20 18:30:10 GMT

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