Ba Lgw-Gci

[gcayman]

Well BA have finally ditched LGW-GCI effective 16June03 when Aurigny will take over the route. Looks like they will operate 3 x daily with an ATR72 whereas BA operated 4 x.
Will the aircraft be an ex BA one?

[hapzim]

British Airways have just announced that they are pulling off the Gatwick / Guernsey route as of 16 June, as ATR's return to lessors.

Rumour Aurigny will start on 17th subject to finance/slots/approval/aircraft/crews, will it be on Sabb 340 or something with decent capacity.

Awaiting further breaking news:ok:

[kuningan]

British Airways to withdraw services to Guernsey

British Airways will withdraw services between Guernsey and London Gatwick airport from 16 June 2003. However, the airline has facilitated the continuation of this service by Aurigny Air Services which will commence flying on the route the day after the British Airways’ service ceases.

British Airways’ decision to withdraw from Guernsey has been made because the 66-seater ATR 72 aircraft which operate on the route will be retired and returned to its leasing company this summer.

Martin George, British Airways’ director of marketing and commercial development said: “It is widely known that our service has been under review for a considerable time as a result of changes to the airline’s fleet. We have been looking long and hard at ways to try to maintain our Guernsey/London service but, despite support from the airport and community, regrettably this has not been possible.

“Putting a larger aircraft type on the route is not an option as this would only serve to incur unsustainable losses. Everyone at British Airways understands how disappointing this news is for the government and people of Guernsey but there is simply not enough customer demand to justify using larger aircraft while providing the high frequency of service which business travellers demand.

“We know how important these air links are to the Guernsey community and, since making this decision, we have been very keen to find another airline to take up this route. Naturally, we are delighted that Aurigny will commence flights on 16 June 2003.”

Passengers holding reservations for British Airways’ flights after June 15 will be booked on Aurigny, offered a full refund or booked on another carrier.

British Airways operates four daily services between London Gatwick and Guernsey.


May 12, 2003



052/LG/03



Media requiring further information should contact the British Airways Press Office in London on +44 (0)208 738 5100 (office hours) or +44 (0)845 77 999 77(out of office hours). For contacts in the UK regions and internationally click here.

[virginblue]

According to www.aurigny.com, Aurigny will use an ATR72 and hopes to increase service to 4x/daily in October. Wonder if they will get one of the ex Cityflyer ATRs.

I also understand that they are after a licence for GCI - SOU, so some further expansion might be ahead.

They must be operating 3 Saabs now, will have the Titan 146 this summer, add an additional Shorts 360-300 for the JER-GCI runs and will get an ATR72. Plus the Trislanders, of course. Wild mix.

I guess even more routes are due as flyBE's Dash 8 -200s and -300s will be chopped - I doubt that flyBE will operate -400s into Guernsey from other destinations than LGW.

[MerchantVenturer]

BA Citiexpress chopped the GCI-BRS Dash 8 service last year.

Aurigny stepped in this year (they obtained a route licence for last summer but did not use it then) and have been operating a daily (more at weekends) Saab 340 service.

The route is reported as going well.

Any other BA routes to GCI that might be chopped, giving Aurigny further opportunity?

[WHBM]

How long before Aurigny gets a BA franchise agreement, the ATR gets a BA livery, and we go back round the circuit again?

Didn't BA pull off London - Guernsey in the 1980s when the Viscount fleet finished?

[gci13]

Just a few points in answer to those raised. Firstly Aurigny did express an interest earlier this year in operating a Guernsey-Southampton service but later decided against that idea. Aurigny won't get any more routes into Guernsey from BA as there aren't any more left - this will be the end of BA in Guernsey and yes this is the second time that BA has withdrawn services to Guernsey, the last time being in April 1980. There are 3 SAAB 340s in the Aurigny fleet, 8 Trislanders (one WFU at present) and, at present, 1 Shorts 360. Bristol is once daily - the additional weekend services don't start until peak summer. Must admit it will be a strange operation with 4 different types of aircraft being operated. Reckon the best thing to do for a start would be to get rid of the Shorts and replace that with another SAAB. G-BMLC was due to be replaced with another Shorts. G-BMLC is not a very good advert for the airline especially when it ends up operating GCI-STN and GCI-EMA due to tech SAAB 340s (usually G-RUNG). Perhaps it might end up operating a LGW pax service when the ATR goes sick!

[gurnzee]

don't knock the poor old Shed. It is the only a/c in the fleet at the moment that has a 100% record this year for it's main purpose in life - the night mail, and there can't be many contracts around that enjoy that kind of record. It also has the flexibility in it's schedule to do things like filling in for the 340's as well as inter-island flights, so I reckon it's doing a damn fine job.
As far as a 'wild mix' of a/c types, each type has a specific roll to fulfill that is suited to that type, sure, the Shed may look ugly but it's not uncomfy and at least you can stand up properly in it.
There aren't many airlines out there expanding, so let Aurigny get on with the job and give them credit for taking it on.

[Torquelink]

...and try operating the Saab on JER - GCI and watch engine and system maintenance costs spiral into the stratosphere. There aren't many aircraft that can tolerate such high cycle ops and the Saab certainly isn't one of them whereas the Shed and the Trislander are. Fleet could become less wild by replacing the Saabs with ATR42s to provide commonality with the 72 on GCI - LGW. At least then Aurigny would have an aircraft with a recognisable product improvement compared to the Shed - unlike the Saab.

[White Knight]

Don't knock the ATR either - in 18 months flying 42's and 72's I only had one tech delay. On the whole the despatch reliability was very high.
Good luck to Aurigny.:ok: :ok:

[TK - 421]

Am I the omly one to link this news with the "GCI Governmentmay buy Aurigny" thread?

I wonder how the other regional operator in the channel Islands is taking the news of this route allocation??

[HZ123]

BA has made a sound management decision and not been swept along by emotions.

GCI cannot support a jet operation and it is far to expensive to operate ATR's with only moderate loads. Over the many years that BA operated conditions have changed dramatically and there is not anywhere near the transfer pax we once enjoyed as they often go via a european outlet, finding longhaul fares far cheaper.

I am sure Aurigny will make a sucess of this and I am sure BA are not the only large carrier in the last few years to pull out.

[kuningan]

Is how the competition view nationalisation of Aurigny...from yesterday's local paper:

‘Aurigny could be lame duck’ - Le Cocq’s boss
by Rosie Allsopp


THE States will be bailing out a lame duck if it buys Aurigny.
Noel Hayes, owner of rival airline Le Cocq’s, questioned how the States could remain impartial if it was both licensor and owner of an airline.
‘No doubt the citizens of Guernsey would like to know how much profit Aurigny made last year to justify the £5m. purchase price,’ he said.
‘I suspect that if you asked them what profit they made after net tax, the answer would be that they lost money.’
Aurigny managing director Malcolm Hart said that the company had broken even for the last two years, but had not produced the kind of returns that a venture capitalist would expect.
‘If you are going to invest £5m., it should be in a business that’s making money. I think it’s a load of rubbish that they broke even. It’s about the States bailing out a lame duck,’ said Mr Hayes.
He said that Flybe would have been the obvious choice to take over the Guernsey-Gatwick slots from British Airways, which is pulling out in June.
‘As an operator, I’m concerned that the route licensing to Guernsey is an area that’s caused problems in getting fair treatment from the Transport Board.
‘It’s a matter of public record that we had to take them to the Royal Court to get the post licence between Guernsey and Alderney.
‘Now we are in a position where we are competing with an airline that’s owned by the people giving out the licences.
‘What sort of fairness will we get in future when the owner hands out the licences?’
He said trying to compete with a State-owned Aurigny would be like competing with a ‘bottomless pit’.
‘The States will just write bigger and bigger cheques. It’s not in their best interests not to subsidise. They will effectively be giving Aurigny a blank cheque.
‘It’s like turning the clock back 30 years to State-owned industries and that’s been proven not to be an efficient way to run a business. Why should it be any different in Guernsey? It’s the thin edge of the wedge and not in the best interest of consumers.’

[CaptAirProx]

I would be interesting to see if fly be could make a go with a Q400. It would be just the thing I'm sure.

As much as I do not see eye to eye with the infamous Mr Hayes, he has got a very valid point.

[CandyBender]

errrrr CaptAirProx don't flybe already make a go of LGW-GCI or am I missing something?? I thought the route was the 1st part of their big expansion 10 years ago when they got their 1st 146s (although GCI was initially served with a mix of F27s & 146s).

[kuningan]

From the local BBC web site:

Flybe bids to delay Aurigny decision


Flybe is concerned any takeover will affect its business
Flybe is making a last minute bid to delay the States of Guernsey's decision to buy local airline Aurigny.

The company will learn on Wednesday whether politicians will back its call for a short postponement, which it feels will allow more time for discussion.

Representatives of Flybe delivered a letter on Tuesday evening to all the island's politicians and Ian Taylor, General Channel Islands Manager, will be at Beau Sejour on Wednesday to answer any questions States members may have.

The move follows news of a proposed takeover of Channel Islands' airline Aurigny by Guernsey's States after British Airways' decision to stop flying the Guernsey to Gatwick route from 16 June.

States-subsidised

Flybe has said it is worried any takeover will seriously affect its business.

The managing director of Flybe, Jim French, said that his company does not want to operate on a route against States-owned opposition.

He said flying in competition with a States-subsidised airline would not be a level playing field and the company would be fighting an unfair battle.

He is urging States members to look at all the available options before pressing ahead with the purchase of Aurigny.

The States is deciding on whether it should buy Aurigny at a cost of about £5m.

BA's decision to withdraw from Guernsey has been made because the 66-seater ATR 72 aircraft which operate the route will be retired and returned to their leasing company this summer.

Slot licences

The airline claims putting a larger aircraft type on the route would only incur unsustainable losses.

However, Guernsey should try and acquire the landing slots at Gatwick airport and licence them to an independent airline, according to the chairman of the Guernsey Chamber of Commerce's transport sub-committee.

Roger Dadd says States members should be considering all the options ahead of the purchase debate and that a licence system works well for island ferry services and could also be used for Guernsey's air links.

Flybe's Jim French said his company was ready to provide that service without the government entering into the airline business.

[In trim]

HZ123,

You are correct in saying that BA have made a sound business decicion......BUT BASED ON THEIR CURRENT COST STRUCTURES which simply do not support this size of aircraft or operation. With better focus and specialist yield management (as there used to be on the route!) it was a different matter entirely.

Just like many other ex-franchise routes, BA simply do not have the 'market-specific' knowledge or attention to detail to manage this size. There are numerous routes out there where the overall yield management has just killed it off as a viable proposition, from what used to be an extremely good financial position!

[kuningan]

So Guernsey nationalises Aurigny.....from BBC Guernsey:

Island's government to buy airline


The States will now purchase Aurigny at a cost of about £5m
A channel island's airline is to become the property of the government of Guernsey.

Politicians voted by 38 to 2 in the States on Wednesday in favour of taking over Aurigny in order to secure links between the island and London Gatwick.

It follows British Airways' decision to stop flying the London to Gatwick route from 16 June.

A number of deputies chose not to vote, and a sursis, aimed at giving politicians more time to discuss the takeover, was defeated.

We have to be scrupulously careful not to unlevel the playing field for other airlines, that is the most important thing

Deputy Laurie Morgan
The States will now purchase Aurigny at a cost of about £5m.

The go-ahead was also given to investigate setting up a new independent body to regulate air transport licensing.

Deputy Laurie Morgan said not everyone would be satisfied with the outcome and it was important to be fair with other airline operators.

"Any director serving on that board has got to serve the interests of the company but also the shareholders, there is a difficulty there of course," said Deputy Morgan.

"But we have to be scrupulously careful not to unlevel the playing field for other airlines, that is the most important thing."

Affected business

BA recently announced that, from 16 June, it will no longer run the service from Gatwick because its current aircraft are being retired and the company says it cannot justify replacing them.

Flybe held crisis talks with Guernsey politicians on Tuesday after the airline revealed its service to the island is at risk because of the buyout.

The airline said it was worried the takeover would seriously affect its business.

The managing director of Flybe, Jim French, said flying in competition with a States-subsidised airline would not be a level playing field and the company would be fighting an unfair battle.

Le Cocqs Airlink had also threatened to withdraw one of its services if the States approve the purchase.

[SkyCruiser]

Well it all sounds a bit fishy to me. The states paying 5M for a company that just breaks even year on year.

After spending a few years in Guernsey and getting to know the practices of the states it's all a bit of a joke. They are a bunch of corrupt people, and Aurigny aren't the most dynamic bunch of people.
They have lost routes in the past because they dither. It will be an interesting couple of months in the islands.

[HZ123]

BA has made the right decision and this is clearly reflected by the threads. GCI may never be able to provide the payback that the larger airlines look to make.

I have not been there for many years but would note that it does not seem to encourage holiday traffic. Ditto for JER and when we look over the last ten years holidays are not taken in places which cannot garantee good weather and cost more that the same in the Med / USA.

Worst still no one is queing up to take over from BA and if Aurigny are funded by the State it be a long time before others look to flying there.

[gurnzee]

bottom line is that this is a good deal for Aurigny. Just because skycruiser's had a bit of bad luck recently doesn't mean he should knock the company that gave him quite a good break. Name one airline that doesn't have the critics and the supporters.
Aurigny has not 'lost' any routes, in fact they have expanded considerably in the last 3 years, and here they go again. Amsterdam was dropped due to sound financial forecasting, it wasn't taken away

[SkyCruiser]

Gurnzee,

I am quite interested in what bad luck you think I have had recently, as this is news to me.

For you info I currently work for one of the best airlines in the world, they have bought me a flat and are paying me 3 times what my former company did I, I am flying a heavy jet around the world. So please tell me what bad luck you think I am having.

I am having the time of my life pal.

Now you should know better that to listen to rumours gurn. I know what it's like over there for nasty little rumours.........Enjoy the winds and cold of Guernsey, it's 30c here and the tan is coming on well.

see ya

[White Knight]

It's no surprise BA can't make money on this route - the cost of the feng shui in waterworld has to come from somewhere!!
I've flown ATR 42's and 72's and RJ100's on the LGW - GCI routes under the "BA" banner and have probably had load factors averaging 90% plus. Don't tell me that these tickets were given away.
BA management couldn't organise a shag in a whorehouse.
Being also ex-Aurigny (trislanders) I'm pleased to see the chances for expansion there. One of the best companies I've ever worked for:cool: :cool: :cool:

[gurnzee]

flyBe, along with Msr le Cocq, are still not happy with the result of the 'take over' but they realise they are farting against thunder. le Cocq want a cast iron guarantee that competition won't be compromised - like that'll happen - and may withdraw their licence to fly ACI - JER. flyBe are threatening to 'look into' their LGW - GCI operation as they 'won't compete against a state run monopoly' - like anything will change there. Won't it be a pleasure for AAS if they have a monopoly to London!!

WK - you will be sad to hear the tri's ops are being scaled back this year. The shed(s) are doing most of the inter-islands now but less frequently.
SC - case of 'mistaken identity' it seems, apologies naturellement!

[HZ123]

With due respect in regard to this route BA has made a perfectly sound decision, this is reflected in the intrigue that has been generated from there pull out.

Clearly monies made on this route are minimal and this is reflected in the lack of interest shown bvy other Uk carriers. Clearly the States government realise this to which is why they made a generous offer to ensure it retains an airlink to the mainland.