Uk/usa ????????

[Kempus]

Hi,

Oky doky folks, was speaking to a training captain a week or so ago. Now this training captain paid for thier own training and was giving advice to myself on going down that route.

Now, they highlighted well more kind of strongly advise me to do JAA training in Europe rather than in the states!

After much thinking, weighing up the pros and cons of each i still dont see why that was said!!

I mean if you gain your license in the US is it, how should i put it, worth less?

How many of you guys have done it in the US and made it in Europe?

Confused,


Stu :confused:

[df1]

Well, I can say that I have been having this very same debate! It seems as though there is still a sort of "class divide". I went to the states in 1996 to kick off my flight training proper. I came back to the UK with a private/multi/instrument.

I personally found the training very good and my schedule was closely monitored. More recently I went to South Africa, that was a disaster!! I got badly ripped off by a guy here in the UK who set the whole thing up. I did make some good contacts though. A lot of the pilots flying in Africa seem to have FAA licences. So it depends, I guess, on where you are prepared to fly, and if you are flexible. This whole JAR thing is too expensive for me now so US is the "best of the rest"!

Don't get sucked into sweet sales crap, and always have a get out plan. I think JAR (UK) training would be safest in terms of customer service etc, but the US is nearly there if not in some cases better. Good luck!

[mad_jock]

I have to state that i am a FI in the UK.

I did my PPL in the the states and really didn't understand the differences until I did my FI rating.

Its mainly to do with how the basics are taught and what your looking to do with the license afterwards.

In no way am I implying that USA trained PPL's are unsafe or not trained properly.

In the UK the whole method of flying is based on attitude flying and trimming correctly. In the US the instructors teach you to refer to your instruments alot more in the basic lessons.

Navigation in the UK is also done more by the numbers than in the states where track following isn't the sin as it is over here.

So you proberly won't notice anything until you start CPL and IR training where the FTO will be teaching you how the examiner wants to see it. This is when you might find yourself having to break some habits and relearn some methods.

Any thing else is based on what the airlines think.

If you can can get a JAR rated FI abroad who will teach you the JAR methods you should have no problem.

MJ

[Keygrip]

Well - Mad Jock - how about you come to the States and teach it!!

[mad_jock]

Keygrip I would love to come to the states and teach.

But unfortunately I have to many hours to qualify for the Visa that lets you work. And I am pretty skint so I couldn't aford to pay for the FAA conversions.

MJ

[monkeyboy]

Kempus, I asked the very same question to the Chief Training Captain of one of the UK's leading charters and he advised that it really didn't matter which country you did your PPL and CPL in - in fact he recommended overseas [JAR compliant, naturally] so as to keep your currency going as the wx is good most of the time, unlike the UK.

He did state that the IR should be done in the UK.

[df1]

MJ, how do you find FAA IR rated guys get on when they do the equivalent test in UK? Is there a noticable faliure rate, and would you say much remedial training is required?

Reason I ask is cos I have FAA IR and will ultimately be looking to get JAR stuff. I find the US system very efficient, from pilot qualification through to airspace structure. Its safe and simple to navigate VFR or IFR, and what impresses me most is their ability to integrate all types of traffic into a local airspace.

Maybe JAA could learn a thing or two from FAA? Its just my opinion, and I have done only bits of IFR here on N-reg's. Of course, weather plays a big part, but IFR is IFR - whether you choose to look outside or not as some seem to prefer. And the USA does have its fair share of bad weather!!

Cheers,

df1

[mad_jock]

I can only really comment on the FAA guys who were doing there JAR IR at the same time as me. So can't comment on failure rates uk wide ( None of them got first time passes though).

An IR instructor in the UK is very different to a FII in the states system( they need something like 500hrs IFR PIC time for the IRI rating). And the process to allow a FTO to instruct IR's is very costly and intensive. They get well payed though 30k+

The IR in the UK is very rarely done in a single.

Just from the lads I have seen.

The biggest problem seemed to be the fact that the UK uses NDB's alot. And you will have to do a NDB hold and approach as part of your flight test and depending on the examiner both may be simulated single engine. This seemed to cause some problems.

Also the FAA IR's seem to struggle with the RT. There are set ways to do it and it takes abit of retraining to get it correct.
I had this problem as well due to learning in the states.

The only other difference seems to be the method of examination.The CAA has a group of examiners who are employed by them who do the initial IR's. They set and maintian a very high standard. I don't know what their criteria are apart from the set guidelines, but they have descretion over everything. They are the last line of defense before you are released on Jo public and expect to see a professional pilot. I have heard the phrase "he failed before he started the engines" if you turn up not looking the part you will have to be pretty damn hot to get away with it.
As I have never sat with a CPL or IR examiner from the states I don't know how this differs.

We don't do that badly in the Uk with airspace considering the lack of space we have to cram everything into. And in my experence the controllers do try there best to intergrate and allow you to do what you want, but as you have proberly seen on PPrune resources are somewhat stretched. I think the controllers in the US are more GA friendly because more of them fly and its more in the culture of the controllers to accomodate GA But i should imagine a refusal in the uk is more to do with work load than can't be arsed factor

Navigating IFR and VFR seems to be exactly the same in my experence (100+ in the states) apart from we use the ADF alot more but once you get the sod sussed its just as easy as a VOR.

To be honest I think both systems could learn from each other.

Anyone who has actually done this conversion like to comment?

MJ