Is it all worth it?????

[b025053]

Dear Mr or indeed (they seem to be more popular by the day!) Mrs Airline/Proffesional Pilot

I have a question, right forum?

My background:

age-21, well educated, GAPAN results HIGH and class 1 med, etc etc.
35Hrs on PA28/38 (yes a real plane, apparently, when it works)
however not qualified PPL.
Always wanted to be a pilot, you know the story, ATC, gliding scholorship blaa blaa.
Working as a Logisticsproblem solver-****e hours (v unsociable), poorish pay- £24-£28K pa (but am 21 and live with mummy and daddy!)-Dont intend to let things continue forever like this.

Whats all this rambling you ask?

Ill cut to the point, I signed up ( including a £750 enrolement fee) to a FTO called Pilot Assist. Gave them a £8K CDL (belonging to Barclays Bank). Did about 4 hrs flying with dissatisfied instructors at Nottingham and sat all 6 ground exams (@ £250 for the pleasure of!) and passed all gaining above 90% in each subject!

Then, PA crumble, and go into voluntary receivership, ...huh. Taking with them my £7.5k balance of CDL ( to which apparently I still have to pay back) and loose my exam results alledgedly. CAA deny receiving them.

All in all, im -£10k down ( GAPAN @£150, class 1 @ £400, petrol, exams, books, hotels, app, CDL etc etc) and no further along, only 6 months further down the line without development.

Then I come into the ever so helpful (being sincere) Pprune!, And learn of how pissed off folk are, how the airlines get more than there pound of flesh from crews, and appointment of positions at the moment is relatively impossible unless you have a type rating and even hours on type!!

I dont want to join the RAF before anyone asks! So im looking at £65k+ more with type rated. Then if i get a job, I could be earning less than I am now.

I do want to be a pilot, not for the glamour ( i dont think there is any anymore? who cares), but for hopefully the love of flying. I think im almost qualified to say this, solo downwind legs are great (at the moment).

But I ask, Is it all worth it????

Really, You guys are qualified to say!

I have an opportunity with NATS as an ATCO, which is tempting, and now Malgus have taken my fancy also, but want money off me straight away for the pleasure of speaking to me!

Im a little confused, and am at the point of thinking for once in my life of not growing up to be a pilot (as a career)!

Your views please!
:ok: :confused: :{

[Jetdriver]

Dear b025053,

I doubt most pilots would now be flying if they didn't feel it was worth it.

However you seem to have had many problems that have been experienced by other wannabees to a greater or lesser extent. I am therefore moving your post to the wannabees forum where you will not only receive replies from professional pilots but also from other wannabees who will have a better understanding of the points you raise relating to the training matters.

Good luck !

[fireflybob]

b025053, you have all my sympathies.

Any great journey is going to have challenges and obstacles on the way - it seems that you have had more than your fair share!

I believe it is who you become on the journey to your goals rather than just the attainment of said goals.

Is it worth it? I think every aspiring professional pilot has asked him/her self that question at some stage or other. Becoming a professional pilot takes bucket loads of determination and a degree of luck but I believe luck is what you get when preparation meets opportunity.

There is nothing quite like flying/operating a large jet transport aircraft, especially when you are in command!

NEVER give up on your hopes and dreams. When faced with a challenge ask youself what most people would do. Probably 90% of people faced with the difficulties you have faced would give up. This is THE reason why you must NOT give up! The difference between "ordinary" and "extra-ordinary" is that little bit "extra".

[b025053]

Cheers FireFlyBob!

Given I dont give up on said ambition, and pour more ££££s into the industry, which I dont really have at the moment, whats the best step to get employed after the frozen ATPL stage?

Assuming I do MCC but no type rating, would I be attractive to any potentials with minimum to unnoticeable hours in log?
I read of one guy with a type rating and 450hrs+ and he cant get an interview, where does a poorly experienced still wet behind the ears guy like me potentially stand?

Unless the industry booms, and the demand grows considerably wont i be scratching around for employment with a hefty debt around my neck??

Im not being a pessimist, just like to have a certain amount of background for risk assesment. Like you would for a landing at an unknown field perhaps?:hmm:

[Pilot Pete]

b0,

This was my story;

here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6911)

and here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5230)

hope this answers your question.

PP

[b025053]

PP- Fabulous!!

A wondeful read and life story for anybody to hear of-even those wierdo's not interested in flying!!

It rather places things in focus in comparison to my trivial but still bloody frustrating set backs.

You've left me most inspired!!

Cheers PP:ok: :ok: :ok: :)

[piperindian]

>Unless the industry booms, and the demand grows considerably >wont i be scratching around for employment with a hefty debt >around my neck??

i dont want to burst your bubble but thats the most probable outcome, with a 90% probablility right now (from people who graduated with JAA fATPL in the last two years).

if you go the JAA fATPL way, you must be sure you are ready to lose everything. as you have experienced, even the fligth school/scheme may go bust
My point of view is that its better to get a PPL, maybe do some hour building in a cheap country (like USA), have some fun and wait for your IR/MEIR/JAA exams. Anyway , a JAA fATPL license is totally useless at the moment

[Pilot Pete]

Just to add a little perspective to the last post.

The commercial flying, especially the multi and IR parts are the real expensive bits. Comparitively, the exams are cheap. I would do the exams at least and then consider if the commercial flying was worth going ahead with. I assume the exams are still valid for a few years without getting licence issue, anyone familiar with the regs under JAR care to comment on this?

A fATPL is certainly not useless as a number of low hours guys are still getting hired by the likes of DHL, and CTC still take them for Easy. Britannia also took some on recently and will again in the autumn. That's just the airlines I know of. I agree times are hard, but piperindian has had a bee in his bonnet for a number of years about how disasterous the low hours/ jobs combination is. Do a search and review his previous contributions. The facts don't get in the way of a controvercial opinion in his book.

PP

[no sponsor]

If I were you, I'd finish off my PPL and do some hour building. Your only 21, so you've got time on your side. Things will turn around for the airlines in a few years. Don't be fooled by people saying a few years ago it was all good news, and people walked into jobs once they had their new licence - its always been a long and hard road, except for some very lucky individuals.

Keep your current job (any job), pay off your CDL as soon as you can; then you're free to do whatever you want.

If you went the modular route, in two years you'll be qualified, and the industry will be starting to recover.

If you do the ATCO, then you'll complicate things, but hey, you're only 21!

Try the sponsorship route as well - but try macalpine, or apply for the Oxford APP.

[b025053]

Thanks for some positive useful advice.

I certainly intend to complete PPL and try and build up the hours. There will be plenty more VFR flying with myself jamming the airwaves with the olde CEPHACER!!

The one advantage I have, recognised by all is my age. But what I want is guidance to make the most of my time I have, with some direction and structure. I think you are all right when you suggest continuing trg! It should provide me with better opportunity to get to grips with the real pulse of the industry and perhaps provide some useful contacts?

PiperIndian- Thanks for your words of wisdom, its your type of attitude which made me decide to start this thread with my initial post. I am well aware of the industries past, present and no doubt future selection and recruitment procedures which are so ruthless. As pilotpete adds, you may only ever have one shot at it if you can build the crudentials to qualify to present yourself to an interview panel. Overqualification shouldnt be a factor in this ball game ( disregarding fireflybob). But what you say and quote is extremely accurate; and painful-its a bitch!!

My "bubble" was "burst" quite early on, and it didnt take the loss of £8K to a FTO to drill it home, it just rubbed it in. I suppose you could say I lost my virginity that every wannabe has to the cruel reality of this so competitive and arguably corrupt industry at a young age. But just reading pilotpetes summed version of abinitio to FO of B757 has inspired me enough, not to give up and remain focussed. ( Whatever the outcome I wont blame you PP,lol). He had a **** time, and other perhaps more important external factors didnt deter him from achieveing his goal once he had reaquired his focus. I think the majority of us would have given up- I'd like to say I wouldnt, but I probably would have! He managed to prioritise correctly, but still come back to aviation and succeed, everytime.

With that in mind, Im going to continue, carry on the very verticle upward struggle that faces all wannabes and all previous wannabes who are now living there dream.

Ill keep you all posted of my progress, how ever slow it may be!
And remain directed to that goal within realistic limits.

Keep the interesting posts coming, Ill look out for them!

Cheers


b0:ok: :ok: :ok: