How much do you pay per hour?

[Dude~]

I've got a feeling I'm going to be green with envy with some of these responses, but curiosity has got the better of me!

I'll start the ball rolling, I pay £90hr for an Arrow, but I never fly alone, always fill up 'fare paying' pax - sorry friends!

The most I have paid was £130 for a Duchess in Australia and the cheapest was a D31 Turbulent for £19 /hr!

[topcat450]

I've just moved and I can get a 150 solo for £60 per hobbs hour.

[DRJAD]

£72/£76 : PA28 : Cadet/Warrior
£77 : R2160

[TheKentishFledgling]

topcat - that isn't at Lydd by any chance is it?

tKF

[FlyingForFun]

Price has just gone up to £21/hr dry - works out approx £30/hr wet.

Most I've ever paid is $300/hr for a Pitts Special. Cheapest is probably my current aircraft, although I'd need to check some of the prices I paid when I was hour-building to be sure none of them were cheaper.

FFF
--------------

[BlueRobin]

45 an hour for a 100kt Jodel. I ah-thankyou.

[Holloway]

Did someone say an PA28 Arrow for £60??? I fly at Manston and I pay £100 an hour for C152 or 110 for a PA28

Sickning :{

[buzzc152]

Approx £25 wet inc landing fees for a C150...... have a few extra bills coming up though.

[Pilotage]

Warrior £50/hr wet, £30/mth (big syndicate at Pophamm). Our other syndicate aircraft which I don't fly is a C152 at £35/hr wet, £25 mth with a £5/month discount if you fly both syndicate aeroplanes.

Most I've paid was £140/hr + landings + instructor cost for checkout for a PA28-235c at Shoreham.

P

[KCDW]

Warrior - $72 (45 quid) per hour at KCDW.

[QNH 1013]

Currently £6 per hour (dry) for a two-seater Jodel (plus £37 per month fixed charge which includes hangarage, insurance, servicing, oil and everything else).

Most ever: approx £1000 for two hours in a Beechcraft during the Instrument Rating Test. However, this did include the CAA examiner (£560 I think) and approach fees at EGHI).

[Scuzi]

Approx £120 per hour on a PA28 - 161 Warrior including one landing fee at Aldergrove.

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

£85 (brakesoff/on) for a PA28 Archer II.

[Coke611]

i currently pay £120 for a C152 Dual at Stapleford. Solo rates are about £90-95 i think!

[Warped Factor]

Chipmunk; £75pm and £40ph and one sixth of all the bills.

WF.

[Keef]

Arrow III, £100pm, £65 per hour, 1/6 of the bills that aren't covered by that.

The joy is that the NEXT hour costs me only £65, so I can afford to go on longer trips!

[Monocock]

I'm finding the variation in hire charges quite amazing.

I appreciate that the £120 / hr Warrior might be all new with whistles and bells but a less than half price Jodel for example gives just as much (if not more) rewarding flying as the next plane.

How much profit do you reckon the clubs actually make from a/c hire......??

And before anyone jumps down my oesophagus I fully appreciate that clubs have other overheads that private owners don't have etc. etc.

[skydriller]

I currently fly my Aeroclub’s two Robins,

DR300 – 120hp/3seat training, €78/hr ~ £67/hr
DR400-140B – 160hp/4seat tourer, €93/hr ~ £56/hr

But even if it cost alot more I would still fly with this french club, not only because it is exactly 5 minutes up the road from my house, but because of the most amazing ‘joie de vivre’ the club has and the extreamly friendly and understanding way they have treated me, a Brit who speaks extreamly bad French, since I joined the club 2 years ago when coming to France. I have never seen a club spirit and ‘camaraderie’ anything like this in the UK, as all the flying schools I saw were just that – flying schools – ie businesses out to make a profit!!! Here in France I am a member of a club in the true sense of the word, where we all get from the aeroclub what we put into it. Last year we (ie all the members of the club together) completely renovated our clubhouse over the course of the summer. Between us we look after the whole aerodrome, ensuring the grass is cut, manning the bar & fuel pumps over the weekend etc. Weekends are when the club really comes alive, the traditional french long lunch at the club being the order of the day, meaning that if you want to fly you had better do it in the morning...or else dont fly at all that day due to the high quality liquid content!!!:=

I’m sorry for going off the thread topic abit like this, but I think that too many of us get caught up in how much it costs to fly. I have unwittingly discovered that if you can find a club that is half as much fun as I think my aeroclub is, then dont worry if you are paying a few quid more for your flying than someone somewhere else, flying is supposed to be enjoyable - so enjoy yourself even when you dont fly!!!

Regards, SD..:ok:

[Canadian Luscombe]

PA18-150: C$110 + 15% taxes
PA28-161: C$106 + 15%
PA38-112: C$96 + 15%

Although the Super Cub costs the most, I think it provides the most fun per $. ;)

[Bodie]

I fly a PA28 Archer II 181 for £10hr + fuel, totals £40-£45 an hour. Pay £45/month.

[mikeo]

I'm in two clubs and hire the cheapest from both:

C150 for £58 per hour

PA38 for £85 per hour

Currently looking at buying a PFA permit type aircraft where running costs are typically £20 per hour (all in!) - provided you do your own maintenance :}

Cost of aircraft are incredible: start from ~ £3,000.

Also found a C150 rebuilding offer - but need to find a licenced engineer to oversee the work.

[Scuzi]

Originally posted by Monocock
I appreciate that the £120 / hr Warrior might be all new with whistles and bells but a less than half price Jodel for example gives just as much (if not more) rewarding flying as the next plane.

It's older than I am, but we don't really have much of a choice over this side of the puddle.

[eyeinthesky]

C172S £135/hr (Hobbs) Solo, £160 dual!!:eek:

Also Archer (old) £100/hr
Warrior £95/hr both brakes off/on.

[DB6]

Firefly 260, £50 per hour + VAT dry, T/O to land :D

[bd01uk]

Warrior III - £100 + VAT
Archer III - £120 + VAT

[Pilotage]

Scuzi,

Yes you do. Get some friends together and start a syndicate.

P

[Mike Cross]

Luscombe 8E £45 per month and £27.50 per hour wet.

There are usually group vacancies available on the Popham notice board.

Mike

[A and C]

Cessna 152 £50/hr no landing fees no VAT no stupld rules.

[Floppy Link]

£2414.23, so far, everything taken into account

OK OK so it's not hiring, but it's worth it!

Half Scale P47 Thunderbolt (http://www.espotlight.co.uk/gbtbi)

Russell :E

[On Track]

Dude:

Are you sure you paid GBP 130 for a Duchess in Australia? Seems excessive to me.

Last week near Sydney I rented a nice new C172 (with only 700 hours TT) for AUD 175 per hour, which I calculate to be about GBP 70 per hour - plus landing fee of about GBP 4.

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

Renting wet per hour from the club and including home landing:

C152 - £95
Archer II - £120

TG.

[santan17]

I kind of wish I hadn't read this thread, some of the prices make me green with envy.

C152 £110
PA28 Warrior £120
PA34 Seneca £255

[paulo]

I think the last time I went to White Waltham, blinking was about a fiver... :rolleyes:

[bcfc]

When I rent the clubs Warrior III, I pay £122 p/hr wet + instructor + landing. It's just been refurbished but still on the high side according to this thread.

:suspect:

[Dude~]

On track,

The Duchess I hired was $300 AUD and was charged on an air switch (activated above 60kts) so it was great for circuits or visiting big airports where lots of taxiing is required, also meant runups were not rushed - I hate paying for planes the second the master switch goes on. It was $360 (~£130) dual. I know you can get cheaper at Sydney, but I was in Brisbane, besides it was an impeccable plane, plus there was P68B Partenavia for the same price.

Some interesting responses. Obviously clubs are expensive, but not everyone wants to or can commit to a syndicate. I personally could not get into most syndiactes because I dont have a lump sum for a share, and I wouldnt want to be periodically charged for maintenace fees. I know some groups don't split maintenance like that (ie monthly fees), but some do, and I know I prefer to have a simple and consistant charge for flying!


D

[QNH 1013]

Dude~ has introduced a very important point which we should have included much earlier in the discussions. i.e. when does the charging time start and end?

I know of the following arrangements used by different owners:

Brakes-off to Brakes-on.

Hobbs meter which starts when master switch moved.

Hobbs meter with oil pressure switch which starts when engine started.

Hours meter in engine tacho which records 1:1 at cruise rpm and therefore much slower when warming up engine, doing checks, and taxying.

Take-off to land plus a fixed time (often ten minutes)

Take-off to land, i.e. just airborne time.


It always seems completely wrong to me to charge the same hourly rate while I am warming up an engine, or checking and setting instruments, or waiting at the hold. Seems crazy to encourage hirers to skimp warming a cold engine up properly, and to rush the checks and taxi, just because the owners want to maximise revenue.

As per an earlier post, our group charges take-off to land time, so there is no pressure to rush the warm-up, the checks, or the taxying, and if ATC want you to wait ten minutes at a holding point, there is no real financial penalty.

[big.al]

Was previously paying £60 per (Hobbs) hour for a C150 at Netherthorpe.

Just joined a group operating a Cessna F172N with all the bells and whistles. Cost is £30 per month for hangerage and insurance, then £55 per (tacho) hour including maintenance and engine fund, with no home-base landing fees at Gamston.

[Dude~]

QHH 1013, interesting you say tacho rates are 1.1 x cruise rpm. I have been wondering at what rpm does 1.00 tacho 'hr' equal 60 minutes? I used to think that it was, 60 minutes = qhr tacho at max rpm. but this is evidently not the case in aircraft I have flown. Can anyone shed any light on the precise tacho rate?

Incidently, QHN 1013, what do you take to be cruise rpm? Bit pedantic I knwo, but just wiondered! 75% power..?

Dude.

[QNH 1013]

Dude~, Actually I said 1:1 (i.e. one-to-one) at cruise rpm and my only source of this information was the man (owner) trying to hire me the aircraft. It would be even better if it registered 1:1 at MAX rpm. Perhaps I was mis-informed.

It could even be that its all a bit variable from aircraft to aircraft.

Where are you Ghengis - can you help on this one?

[OBK!]

Look at the replies, I am lucky to have to pay only:

Robin 2160: £77/hr
Pa28-161: £72/hr (or Warriors with RNAV at £76/hr)
Pa28-181 Archer 2: £82/hr

All are wet and include as many landings as I want at the based airfield :p

[Kolibear]

Koliber - £50pm and £45ph wet.

[Genghis the Engineer]

So far as I know A CORRECTLY WORKING standard Hobbs meter (tacho) records actual time irrespective of revs.

Having said that, I used to fly a difficult to start syndicated aeroplane whose Hobbs would jump during the starting cycle. My record was 1.3 hours on the Hobbs until I got the engine running - actually about 10 minutes of mucking about and swearing loudly at the aeroplane.

Strangely I don't fly that aircraft any more, but noticed it for sale on a notice board the other day.


Looking at a couple of online catalogues such as http://www.wicksaircraft.com/gotopage.php?page=170 , or http://www.ishams.com/p1000afms.html I can't see any reference to scaling.

I suspect that wise renters would rent dry, then there's a definite incentive upon hiring pilots to fly at best economy, which will tend to be treatment that prolongs the engine life (well except in the first few hours after a new engine has gone in anyway).

G

[On Track]

Dude:

Thanks for clarifying the method by which you were charged, and it may well be that Brisbane is less competitive than Sydney.

At the field from which I fly I was, until recently, able to hire a Duchess for AUD 250 per hour (based on VDO not air switch). At today's rates that would be GBP 100 per hour. (Unfortunately the aircraft is no longer available.)

[Charlie Zulu]

Beagle Pup Series 2 (BT12)

£60 per Month Standing Order.

£35 per Tacho Hour (Wet).

Semi Aerobatic aeroplane with all of the kit... ILS/VOR/ADF/2 COM etc etc...

Based at a nice big airport so no problems with muddy runways! Oh and the landing/touch n go/navigation/approach fees... well they are inclusive with the monthly parking fees.

[Dude~]

Here's a small and somewhat incomplete summary of hourly wet rates: not including planes which have a monthly rate.

Arrow £90
Duchess £130
Druine Turbulent £19
Warrior £76 £95 £110 £120 £122
Archer II £85 £100 £120
R2160 £77
100kt Jodel £45
C152 £50 £95 £100 £110
PA28 Dakota £140
PA38 £85
C172 £135(£160dual!)
PA34 Senecca £255

[Oscar Duece]

Genghis

Can't understand your comment re: renting on a dry rate will mean flying ecominically and prolong engine life.

Call me a young fool (against your background / experience) but I always thought this was the complete opposite. Any fuel leaning, be it to best economy or even too lean to save every penny will result in increased engine temperature and increased wear (poorer lubrication at high temps.)

This is why when I was training (in Florida) we where told never to lean the mixture at any level, to keep the temperature and engine wear down.

Surely if your renting wet you aint gonna worry about using a couple more litres and keeping the cht down...:ok:

[I have control]

1981 Archer II - $20 per month, $50 per hour at KOSH

[Genghis the Engineer]

A fair point well made.

Works both ways really.

Overly enthusiastic leaning will as you say add to engine wear and reduce life, although properly done leaning shouldn't (especially in an aircraft actually fitted with an EGT gauge).

On the other hand routine red-lining of the throttle to cut 5 minutes off journey time, taking off as soon as possible (because it's on the tacho) rather than idling to warm the engine up properly for a few more minutes, or shutting down the engine immediately the aircraft is parked, rather than again letting it idle for a few minutes and settling down. All those things reduce the engine life.

I suppose ultimately wet-leasing is much easier on the paperwork.

G

[FlyingForFun]

Have to agree with Oscar Duece here. I would think very very carefully about paying a dry rate. The only reason I was happy to pay a dry rate for my aircraft is because there is no mixture control, so no danger of other pilots over-leaning.

As for taking off as soon as possible, the easy way around this is to pay for take-off to landing (as my group does), or brakes-off to brakes-on (as the club/school that I hire from occassionally does). This applies for a dry rate as well as a wet rate.

FFF
-----------

[Rallye Driver]

The Yak 52 I fly is £60 a month, plus £60 an hour dry, plus landing fee. I have no problem with this. The aircraft has automatic mixture control anyway. Depending on what you do the fuel burn can be from about 60 litres to 100 litres an hour, so the fairest way of doing things is to fill up with 100LL and top up the oil when you finish. The system works very well as you always start with full tanks so there is no argument.

Other prices I pay:

Arrow II £135 an hour wet (chock to chock) and including home base landings
Bulldog £118 an hour wet (tacho)

RD

[Dude~]

That sounds great Rallye Driver, what kind of flights do you generally do in your Yak? Do you go places, or is it a sort of 45min jolly plane? What speed does it do as I 've see Yak52s take off and they often seem to lift of in around 100yds then climb wildly. 400hp isnt it though?!



Don't forget that dry rates are great for people and their planes who often fly to the continent - cheap fuel...!

[Rallye Driver]

It's basically a 45 minute jolly aircraft, as the endurance is about 2 hours at 60% power, or an hour if you do aeros at 82%.

I'm still in the process of being checked out, which is taking some time as the Yak had to go back to Romania last year to have some spar cap corrosion fixed and has only just come back (via Lithuania for a 500 hour check). Then there will be another delay when it's put onto the G-register. The last attempt was when the corrosion was uncovered.

Our 52 has got a standard 360hp M-14P, giving you about 200kph at 60%/60cm.

Nice, fun aeroplane to fly.

RD

[FougaMagister]

I pay 107 Euros/hr (£67) wet for a PA-28/161 Warrior and 122 Euros (£81) for an Archer II. The Robin 400 is priced at 90 Euros/hr (£60) wet - but then that's in France!

Training in the US, I had to pay $75/hr for a Warrior (£50 at the time) and $59 for a C-152 (£40). The (brand new) PA-44-180 Seminole was $175/hr (£120 back then).

In Jo'burg, I paid £48.50/hr for Warrior III and Archer III, £65/hr for Arrow, and... £150/hr for Cessna-310!

In Britain, I have to pay £90/hr for a Warrior... Guess why I prefer GA flying accross the Channel!!!