orange in the red (Merged)

[omoko joe]

Easyjet are about to post significant half yearly loses this week. It would appear that even the LCC's are feeling the pinch. Is anyone out there actually making any money?

[Tom the Tenor]

Yes, Aer Lingus and Ryanair! Oh, those Paddies! :ok:

[Sagittarius Rising]

Ryanair can't give free seats away.Lets see what tomorrow comes up with for eJ.

[kinsman]

Are Ryanair making money or have they got creative accountants?

[tailscrape]

Kinsman,

No, the only creative accounts department is at MY TRAVEL.

Oops, almost forgot. You work for them! :O :sad:

[GO DIRECT]

Emirates made a record profit, enough to give 2 months profit share to its workforce. Check out their website for details.

[JB007]

Mr Webster has just been on BBC Breakfast, looking, I have to say like he'd just crawled out of bed!!! What is it with low-cost management that they think it's ok to look scruffy for work???

Anyway, forgive the ramble - losses of £47m after tax....the BBC also said, before talking to RW, that there would be redundancies at HQ...!!! Anyone heard this ?

[kinsman]

Tailscrape

Fair point but our creative accountants are no more! I wonder how many other companies have creative accountants or shall we all live in never never land and assume only MYT had the misfortune to have some dodgy accountants.

Time will tell!

Easy seem to have done OK all things considered. They at least did not have to try and give away 1000000 flights. Not Ryanair knocking but you have to ask how they manage such extraordinary profits at times like these?


:ok:

[Hugh Jardon]

Virgin Atlantic have reported a £10 million pre-tax PROFIT.

[MarkD]

FR couldn't give away a million seats etc...

Well, excepting the revenue from inflight sales (which to someone booking a flight for free isn't going to be much - packed lunch ahoy!) FR aren't losing money if people don't fly on a free seat.

Why do FR have all these seats? Because they bought 738s which weekdays have spare capacity but are chocka at the weekend, rather than buying 73-700 and turning people away at peak.

For those who cackle the "million free seats" refrain, if FR can't give away seats but make money, and EJ don't give them away and lose money, what does that say about EJ yield management?

One does have to remember that the Buzz integration costs have not yet filtered through to FR's accounts, but at least the fish is landed, unlike Deutsche BA!

[Copenhagen]

Its Easy's costs that are the problem, not their revenues...

If you look at the airlines that are turning profits at present, its airlines that are hacking back costs, such as Aer Lingus and hopefully BA... those that don't are un profitable

[bounty]

Easy have just announced 50 redundancies at HQ (source BBC 5 live) :sad:

[HZ123]

How can Easys costs be high compared to the more established outfits. Surely F/C though paid well perform the maximum permissable hours and C/C costs are low. Is it then interest payments on a/c.

[omoko joe]

LONDON (AFX) - easyJet PLC saw its seasonal losses widen following its
takeover of rival Go Fly, though the low-cost carrier also revealed an 11 pct
fall in air fares in the first six months of its financial year.
Reporting April yields down 3 pct year-on-year, the company said the outlook
for the remainder of the year remained uncertain.
While May revenue per flight was "tracking" last year"s levels, June is
currently weak.
There was however good news on the cost of integrating of the Go fleet,
which at 5.6 mln stg in the first half cost less than projected. But that was
offset by a 9.2 mln stg termination charge covering the break-up of its takeover
of Deutsche BA.
easyJet"s loss before goodwill amortisation and exceptional items was 24 mln
stg, which compared with an 8.3 mln deficit a year earlier, but much lower than
market estimates which ranged 35-49 mln.
"At this point in time it is too early to have visibility regarding the
financial outcome for the full year, as the strength of fares over our crucial
summer period is not likely to be clear for a couple of months," said chief
executive Ray Webster.
"However, we expect to maintain high load factors, albeit with yields
continuing to be under some pressure compared to last year, offset to an extent
by the reduction in the rate of growth of capacity which occurs in the second
half of the year."

[Colonel Klink]

What may be not widely realised is that in most years over the winter months, easyJet has traditionally made a loss, and combined with the Iraq war, the takeover of Go and the Sars virus, it is not at all surprising they still made a loss over winter this year. However, the takeover is complete, the virus is under control, the war is over, the economy is on the mend and I would be very surprised if easyJet did not make an excellent profit over the summer months.

[bullseyecontrolla]

Congratulations to the management at Easyjet. Within six months they have managed to turn two profit making airlines into one much larger loss making airline.

Micheal O'Leary will be smoking a rather large cigar and having an extra pint of Guiness tonight, as he watches "Europe's biggest low cost airline", "the webs favourite airline", start down the slippery slope to bankruptcy.

The future is not looking so bright for orange right now:}

[Getafix]

We all have known for a while easy were losing money hand over fist and have announced job losses in adim and blaming various factors War SARS ect, for the losses, can easy keep going??

But do you really think that a few losses in admin are going to make up the short fall. Their total wage must be less than 6 or 7% of the total profit loss.

Me Thinks that Webster has bitten more than he can chew(ie buying GO) and the work force are going to pay the price Pilots and Cabin crew are the next to follow the admin out the door.

Base closures have to be on the cards as well cancelling new aircraft orders, routes ect and if they dont do that and still lay off people how can they justify that.

The city must be getting very nervy about thier money or the lack there of.

Webster and co have got it wrong big time but won't admit that its not thier fault!!!(but they got there big pay outs)

What they wont admit that the day to day operation is in chaos thats where ther lossing money they simlpy don't know what there doing AND THAT'S A FACT OF LIFE.
They can't even match up a crew and flight correctly for god sake!

[capt.magoo]

when the two companies merged all staff did their very best,sop's were changed,company ethos was changed,colur was changed ,staff who use to eat , sleep and talk GO changed skin overnight (LOYALITY),but that was not the problem.
if only easy jet managment get off thier **** sides and try to do something with the company and listen to people who had made a profit in the past rather than listening to the echo of their voices which they love,only then they might make a difference.
get rid of RW and his deciples thats a good start.

[Goforfun]

Well said magoo!

With Morale rock bottom, people being farmed around the countryside in taxi's, not going into discretion, no flight plans (often), office staff hanging up on each other and inter company feuding it doesn't exactly sound like a good combination for making profit does it!

Some manager’s don’t need to be made redundant- they need to be sacked. RW included.

Until there is massive change at EJ and the ability to be flexible and open their eyes past their 1990s business model (don’t mention cargo!) EJ won’t survive.

Go changed a lot- some of that was in unhappy times- but it evolved. Keeping it's staff happy, kept the punters Happy. All we hear now is the cabin crew giving pax abuse back- because they simply can't be bothered. :mad:

Its not surprising the topic of conversation among staff at the moment is - "who is recruiting?"

Todays news is of little surprise.

[Orangewing]

HZ123 - cabin crew costs are extremely high, they get paid incredibly well (for doing virtually nothing) but due to the c**p they have to put up with they don't stay long and are constantly having to be replaced. Pilots do nowhere near the maximum flying hours, only the max duty hours i.e it is quite normal for a pilot to fly say 2hrs in a 10 hr duty period. Hardly efficient, eh? :cool:

[moggie]

The whole DBA thing perplexed me. I never did see the point in spending a lot of money to hold an option on a 737 operator with a high cost base when you are low cost operator in the process of moving over to A320!

GBP9.2million for NOTHING except bad PR does not sound like good business sense to me.

[Aviation Trainer too]

WHAT A LOAD OF NONSENSE! GET A LIFE GETAFIX!

Loses were coming and we knew it due to a period of extra costs due to the merger and the state of the industry. Overhead was too big as it is after any merger.

More crew are needed still and more bases are opening so stop acting like a minor!

[LowDragLowNoise]

mmmh Good thing i left the Orange sect...
Bye bye disneyland...:\

[Mentaleena]

These are a "profit making" airline's prices currently on the net.
I am taking up flyfishing instead of flying planes. The future's neither orange or harp, the future's non existent.


London-Stansted
Click a destination for full details of our low fare offer
Palermo £ FREE Jerez £ 1.50 Brescia £ 4.99
Pau (Pyrenees) £ FREE Esbjerg £ 2.50 Bologna (Forli) £ 4.99
Pisa £ FREE Derry £ 2.50 Newquay £ 4.99
Gothenburg £ FREE Milan (Bergamo) £ 2.50 Trieste £ 8.99
Stockholm (NYO) £ FREE Eindhoven £ 2.50 Ancona £ 8.99
Frankfurt-Hahn £ FREE Cork £ 4.99 Carcassonne £ 8.99
Venice Treviso £ 2.50 Dublin £ 4.99 Poitiers £ 8.99
Barcelona-Girona £ 1.50 Kerry £ 4.99 Alghero £ 8.99
St.Etienne (Lyon) £ 2.50 Brussels (Charleroi) £ FREE Brest £ 14.99
Glasgow £ 2.50 Ostend-Bruges £ FREE Stockholm (VST) £ 14.99
Aarhus £ 2.50 Haugesund £ FREE Knock £ 14.99
Rome (Ciampino) £ 2.50 Reims Champagne £ 4.99 Graz £ 14.99
Murcia £ 1.50 Rodez £ FREE Turin £ 14.99
N'mes £ 1.50 Strasbourg £ FREE Shannon £ 14.99
Groningen £ 2.50 Blackpool £ FREE Montpellier £ 18.99
Hamburg (Lübeck) £ FREE Limoges £ 4.99 La Rochelle £ 18.99
Malmo £ 2.50 Salzburg £ 4.99 Perpignan £ 18.99
Clermont-Ferrand £ FREE Klagenfurt £ 4.99 Biarritz £ 18.99
Maastricht £ FREE Tours (Loire Valley) £ 4.99 Pescara £ 18.99
Dusseldorf (Niederrhein) £ FREE Oslo (Torp) £ FREE Dinard (Britanny) £ 18.99
Altenburg £ FREE Genoa £ 4.99 Bergerac £ 18.99
Friedrichshafen £ FREE Berlin-Schonefeld £ 4.99

[capt.magoo]

GOFORUM bang on your correct.
Orangewing i dont know about your idea for cabin crew would you like them paid as consultant surgions???

they do absolutely nothing they are dressed like clownes and i dont mean their uniform,earings for the lads,all looking like george michael with their facial hair.........what else,they are rude to crew and most importantly pax.
because they think they are always wright... ha ha ha.!!!!
the list is endless.but i can say this much ezy's original cabin crew are much better behaved than most of the GO crew,i only can say their well CRM'd
:confused:

[moggie]

Of course, there are probably only one or two seats available at the above prices on each aeroplane.......... maybe even fewer than that!!!

[Getafix]

Sorry get a life what dose that mean???

Just asking what I think are valid questions when a company posts large losses or are you so scared to ask the same questions.

The feeling in wider arena is that easy is in trouble its summer time now easy should be in profit or at the very least heading that way.

Just remember easy took over a company that was in PROFIT or has that fact escaped you.
People have already been made redundant that has also escaped you.
You obviously have never been in that situation count your lucky stars.

Your aggressive nature is typical of what goes on in easy jet.

Only time will tell my dear Aviation Trainer!!!

Oh by the way take a look at Ryan air's figures available on their website aren’t they in the same industry nea the SAME sector!!!

[jumpseater]

Which wider arena might that be? I only ask as their share price has in fact risen today, not by much, but if all the doom and gloom merchants were correct, the city would have bailed out big time this morning. The fact that UBS Warburg last week lowered expectations of the easyJet share price gave the City an early heads up and many probably took stock at that time. You might like to look at the share price trend before making comments not bourne out by facts.

Perhaps you might like to back up your assertion that crew are next and base closures with some facts.....

[Orangewing]

Capt. Magoo, the point I was trying to make was that cabin crew at ej are paid far more than the market rate, especially considering that they don't actually have to do much compared to their colleagues in say the I.T market.
Apologies for not making myself clearer - and going off the thread!

Rgds:cool:

[ghost-rider]

The feeling in wider arena is that easy is in trouble its summer time now easy should be in profit or at the very least heading that way.

getafix,

In case Planet Zarg Daily didn't reach you, the figures are for the first half of the financial year - which does NOT include the summer ! :rolleyes:

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/pc-crash.gif

And as for the insults about not knowing what we're doing etc :

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft/FMSbolls.gif

[Getafix]

On Tuesday Mr O'Leary launched a highly critical advertising campaign highlighting what he called "lies" about EasyJet's fares. "We want to eliminate the idea that EasyJet is somehow a low-cost carrier. It isn't. Its average fares are 70% higher than ours," he said.

Yesterday, UBS Warburg, one of EasyJet's two brokers, added fuel to the fire by slashing its 2003 earnings forecast by 37% to 15.3p, citing concerns that EasyJet will be forced to cut prices in response to increased discounting on short-haul flights by traditional and charter airlines.

"EasyJet's problem right now is that in periods of weak travel demand - inefficient airlines take a long time to die," UBS Warburg explained in a note to clients. "We think there is a clear risk that the demand recovery is insipid and this allows the weak carriers to muddle through the summer and to continue to put pressure on pricing."

EasyJet ended 12.5p, or 6.2%, lower at 190p, while Ryanair eased 17p to 429p.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/airlines/story/0,1371,943966,00.html

Well your in the know how are bookings for the summer coming on?
And what will be the yield is easy expected to return a profit for years end?

How are fuel prices effecting the operation?(Hedging)
Why is crew turnover higher that usual adding to training costs?

Are there positive efforts being made to reduce expenditure
i.e. Travel cost taxi's Hotac ect .

How is the low share price going to effect financing of new aircraft
and depth management?

In order to reduce losses what has to be done to stream line the operation?

What assets do easy have and can they be managed in a more effective way?

And what’s with the bullyboy tactics when some asks questions about his future and will they have a job in the next six months

[jumpseater]

Getafix quote:

And what’s with the bullyboy tactics when some asks questions about his future and will they have a job in the next six months


So you work for easy then, then you will have access to most of the answers to the questions in your previous post :uhoh:

[JP5A]

I fly, only because of price, with Easy from Liverpool.
I find the check in staff and cabin crew to be unbearable.
On my last flight back from Barcelona the hostess would not allow me past the trolley to get back to my seat after visiting the loo. After 20 minutes I had to appeal to the other hostie to have a word with the trumped up b***h in front of the cart to let me through and back to my wife.
The whole lot seem exactly the same.
Who on earth trains these people to behave like such little hitlers?
Bring on the competition and let the custmer have a choice.

[FlapsOne]

The city must be getting very nervy about thier money or the lack there of.

Why did the share price go up by 5% today then?

[Zulu]

Why did the share price go down by 67% over the last year then?

[ezysleazy]

Wow 5% rise from less than 2 quid after having dropped 80% from £5.60+ in the last year!!!

The City is worried about eJ's hadling over the Go merger and the acquisition of Buses as the first Low cost carrier in the world.
eJ's own banker USB has downgraded their rating from hold to sell so even eJ's inhouse banker is bailing out.

Yield is now the lowest of any low cost carrier anywhere. The bubble has burst, eJ has now become a takeover target itself. The airline is worth less than 200 mill down from over a billion.

Might be a good investment for 3i? They could reinvest the 200 mill profit they made on the sale of Go.

Time to update the CV's??

[PAXboy]

two things that are helping FR to profits.

First is the way that they do not refund pax service charge and others. I was reading in the last week (have tried to locate source but failed) that this adds 10mill Euros to their balance sheet per annum.

Second, a small but simple thing, quoted from ABTN 28th April.
"RYANAIR has (quietly) reduced the baggage allowance on luggage to 15kg from the IATA standard of 20kg per passenger and is being very active in ensuring that passengers pay for any overweight suitcases. Ryanair charge £4 per kilo which for a typical 25kg heavyweight piece of luggage means an additional charge of £80 for a return trip. Most full service carriers are reasonably flexible with luggage of this weight and will not actually charge."

I have not been on EZY for nearly two years - no reason other than not going to places they serve - so I shall watch them carefully in two weeks time.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Ummm, aren't JetBlue all Airbus?

WWW

[ezysleazy]

Jet blue is a business class only operation and do not compete with the likes of Southwest so Jet blue is not a true low cost carrier.

That's why RB is starting Virgin Red on the East coast

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Funny, JetBlue call themselves a low cost airline on their own website:

our dream of creating a successful low-fare airline based in New York City.

WWW

[Zulu]

You can read all sorts of cr@p on the web...how about this from easyJet's website:

"An open culture that is autonomous and non-hierarchical with an approachable senior management team."

"We view our people as our Number One asset and they are fundamental to our success."

And my favourite:

"Stability in a dynamic environment"

Don't believe all you read on the web...

[In trim]

How many airlines can publish a £47m loss, and on the same day see such a rise in share price?

eJ have been honest with the City and been feeding the 'bad news' about yields etc. for long enough (see the recent decline in share value) to avoid a big shock on the day when results are finally announced.

The 50 head office jobs are no surprise.....a little trimming is required in a few areas. However, any slack in a lot of areas will soon be taken up with the planned growth over the coming year.

With hindsight the DBA episode might be looked on as a mistake....but it has given eJ a valuable insight into the German market and labour laws, and potentially saved an expensive mistake at a later date. In the longer term this may prove to be 'money well spent' rather than an 'expensive mistake'.

The business plan is still strong. Costs may not be as low as RYR, but then the RYR market is, in many respects, very different (where the hell is Hahn?). eJ costs are certainly lower than the "traditional" airlines, and there's over £300m in the bank. Easter has fallen in April this year, the (traditionally profitable) summer is on the way, the integration is complete.....don't write them off yet!

:O

[no sig]

Getafix

What's RYA's last quarter results with respect to yield? And 70% higher than what? you know as well as I that to say 70% higher means nothing in this game with defining all the assumptions. easyJet of course also offer our passengers a flight to major destination airports and not to airfields in the country, there is a fare differential on that convenience that our passengers are happy to pay for.

[Globaliser]

ezysleazy: Jet blue is a business class only operationOperating A320s configured for 162 passengers at 32" pitch? Hardly.

[Spartacan]

Here is the comment from broker Smith Barney:


EasyJet

OUTPERFORM at 188p says Smith Barney (7th May 2003).

EasyJet's interim results fell short of expectations by revealing a loss before tax of £48.1m and a 10.7% fall in average fares year on year. On a positive note, the integration of Go is reportedly ahead of plan and revenue and cost synergies are still expected as the route networks and operations continue to combine. Smith Barney attributes the problems this time to "excessive" capacity growth, the immaturity of the Go network and an unhedged fuel position. However these issues appear to cause the broker little concern as it reiterates its confidence in the group's business model and maintains a positive rating.


I don't think anyone as particularly worried. 75% of mergers and acquisitions fail. Of those that survive there must be teething problems. easyJet are probably doing quite well all things considered.

[kinsman]

I agree with the last post! Why are there so many folks on this site who apparently take pleasure in bad news and seem intent on talking good companies down?

[Sir Donald]

Well said Kinsman,
Council estatees demand 1st class service for next to nothing, blame the cabin crew for poor sevice, the list goes on. Compensation culture comes to mind.
No one seems to talk about management's incompetence. After all
its not the crews that run the company.
The revenue is there, however it is a different story of how it is re-invested. Well paid crew, HA,why the high turnover and constant recruitment ?

[MarkD]

WWW

I think the difference is that JB did not start as a 737 based airline and move lock stock and barrel to the 320, more that they struck a deal with Airbus when 320s weren't "flying off the shelves" so to speak. The cost of the move to the bus is what is at issue.

[pilotofjet]

I know how we could reduce the loss by £10 million. RW has a duty to the shareholders and it is high time he shouldered his resposibilities. It is pathetic we are paying fat cat bonuses to a team who have lost this much cash. It transpires that instead of the pax paying us, EJ have been paying them approx £2.odd each to travel with us!!!!!No wonder RW is complaining of falling yields.

[Avman]

easysleazy , I don't know where you got your information on Jetblue. I've used them quite a few times. They are excellent but definitely NOT a Business Class airline. Perhaps an apt description might be, "up-market, low-cost carrier". I'm a great Southwest fan too but I would rate Jetblue as No. 1 in the industry in terms of value for money.

[MPH]

Martinair-Holland posted a 3 Million euros profit...mainly from cargo though!:O

[Goforfun]

From MSN

Airlines: a great way to lose money

http://money.msn.co.uk/investing/Insight/SpecialFeatures/MultiplyYourMoney/BudgetAirlines/default.asp

[Slim20]

Well if anyone managed to plough their way through that lot, I expect you're asking yourselves , what the chuffing flip are we all still doing here then?

Someone invent an anti-gravity motor and put us all out of our misery for pants sake.

[omoko joe]

so one of the reasons they're losing money is because they're a low cost carrier charging low cost fares! I'm sure the Ryans will have a laugh at that one.:rolleyes:

[fireflybob]

Airlines heading for global 'shake-out'


FT (http://search.ft.com/search/article.html?id=030509000856&query=airline&vsc_appId=totalSearch&state=Form)

[autobrake3]

Kick Webster out and get Babs back.....presto !

[HZ123]

Was Babs on a BA contract the whole time and I imagine she may be looking to join Skippy or succeed him.

[springbok449]

Well I too like many others can reduce the loss by at least 10 millions easyly.
Mr Webster it is great time that you get real, I read recently in one of your newsletters that if the staff don't like it they can work for someone else...Well I am not a manager but I sure know that that is not the right tactic!!
Who is held responsible for all the money you have spent on Carmen, etc? No one because it is a no blame culture!
I am sure that it is only a matter of time before the city will ask you some serious questions then maybe all the proteges in Lalaland will start to move on or fall...

[stormin norman]

A fare advertised on the BA website was Heathrow-Paris for £14
Plus the Tax.
Now for those of us south of the Thames, who can get there easily by public transport it makes good economic sense not to go to Ltn or Stn.
The rail link is poor.the motorways are a nightmare and then theres the parking fee.
Ba's entryinto the real world (web) has been a success.If the Easy's and the raynairs are to survive they will have to come up with something better.Like a well advertised new sweet, we all try it once but more than not, go back to what we've always liked.
150 new A320's thay must be mad !

[Clear right!]

£5 billion in debt £1.8 billion in cash and flying to CDG for £14? How long can they keep that up? :rolleyes:

Oh and there's always EZY at LGW :ok:

[Engee73]

Do open your eyes Norman.

With 80%+ load factors, I don' think easy is having too many problems attracting pax.

What sort of yield is BA managing with £14 fares?

easy's entry in to the real world continues to be a remarkable sucess. :p

[omoko joe]

with 80% load factors I'd have thought the idea was to make money, not lose 47mil.

[stormin norman]

Engee73

What sort of yield is BA managing with £14 fares?
Its called loss leaders !

With Easy's 80% Load factors ,low airport charges
(Ltn,Stn) How do you lose money ?


Answers to the easy board please!

[Stockpicker]

IMHO the biggest difference between EZY and Ryanair is the airports they fly to. As long as Mr O'Leary can persuade airports to pay him to land (worth their while if they get car parking/shoppping revenues), he gets highly subsidised new routes so grows faster. If on the other hand like EZY you fly to more established airports (LGW, CDG) it's a lot hard to grow profitably and fast at the same time. Does this stack up with anyone elses's view?

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Stockpicker has got it right folks. I am an A320/1 driver working for a direct competitor to easyJet at LGW, and I reckon our costs are lower than theirs. Incidentally I am well-disposed towards easyJet and wish them to do well but not ahead of us!

The traditional low cost model is to fly from somewhere in the middle of nowhere to somewhere else in the middle of nowhere, provide absolutely no in flight service and make everyone believe that they really have gone where they want to go after all! Ryanair are a perfect example of a company who stick religiously and extremely successfully to that formula. easyJet have however veered from that model in that they are now taking on the traditional carriers (Monarch, Thomas Cook, GB Airways operating as BA, My Travel etc). In addition there are all sorts of other companies like Jet2, BMI Baby etc starting up from different places but to easy's destinations, and easy's natual advantages are gone. People can get fares as cheap or cheaper plus get a meal and good service with these other airlines. The 'in-yer-face' management attitude at easy is now starting to backfire as suddenly there is a raft of negative publicity ranging from bad cabin service, pilot disputes and now big losses. In the meantime the other airlines I mentioned are just quietly getting on with their lives and are making modest profits. There is no doubt that yields have been affected in all companies by this current price war, but easy have really overstretched themselves and are not in a position to fight a long-term battle. They had delusions of huge inefficiencies at these other companies that they could capitalise on, whereas in reality these companies are by and large well-run and very efficient.

Then comes the new aircraft type. Our company has just had a change from 737s to Airbuses (albeit on a much smaller scale than easyJet are planning), and although it has been well handled, it has been extremely hard work for a lot of people. How easyJet, already under the microscope, are going to manage that transition I do not know. They can only take so many ab-initio or inexperienced pilots into their system and they apparently require 200 Airbus pilot next year. They seem to have made little or no provision to recruit and train Airbus crews as yet, and seem to be relying heavily on the demise of My Travel to fulfil their experienced pilot requirement next year. Recent events on the stockmarket are showing that My Travel may yet have a few more breaths in them, and that makes easy's position difficult. I am not aware of anyone in our company (or indeed any other) being recruited to assist in this task, and unless handled extremely carefully it means that chaos could ensue at a time when stability is required.

As a former employee of Debonair, the unfolding situation at easyJet seems remarkably similar. I am loath to say the bubble has burst at easyJet, but cannot help but feeling that the internal pressures are so great that the bubble is certainly bulging massively!

[Nil further]

Norman et all , i work in the land of orange for my sins, no its not perfect , however you all seem to be overlooking the fact that considerable amounts of existing easy pilots have considerable Airbus experience incuding many TRE ,TRI etc.
A figure of 30% of existing crews having airbus experience was quoted to me by a person from the orange shed could be complete b*******s that bit but Ive met lots of guys on the line with preious experience on Airbus and ive never heard of anyone waiting or wishing for MyTravel to go bust.

"be careful what you wish for it may come true "

Rgrds to all

[Airbrake]

Nil, I think your figures for Airbus rated pilots at EJ are vastly over estimated. We have in the region of 600 pilots at Easy and no way are 200 of them Airbus rated. Of those that are rated very few will be prepared to move base for the aircraft. Gatwick is the current favourite to get the Airbus first and even those keen to return to an Airbus cockpit will have to consider the high cost of housing/rent in that area.
As for My travel nobody wants them to go bust. However, I think we would be naive to think that Easyjet do not see them as a potential source of rated and experienced pilots. As for planning ahead at Easy, well, we don't even know for sure where these aircraft are going to go yet, never mind who is going fly them.
As one last point, any new Airbus Captain will be on a 10% pay cut for the first 6 months for his trouble, that's hardly encouraging any body to jump ship.

[FlapsOne]

Airbrake

To qualify your reply a little - a newly promoted/DE employed captain will earn 90% of the full command pay for 6 months. A current EZ 737 captain moving to airbus will retain the same pay.

We wouldn't want people to get the wrong message now would we?


Norman Stanley Fletcher

The 'traditional model' you quote is that of Ryanair and no other. Hardly traditional !!!!!!!!

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

FlapsOne

Thanks for your reply. I think it would be fair to say that the 'traditional model' I described would be true for Debonair, Buzz, Go, SouthWest Airlines in the States and of course easyJet themselves in the past. My point is that easyJet are operating far more as a traditional airline with all the rise in costs that will bring. Do not misunderstand me - I will them well but I think their traditional advantages have been eroded now they are competing on the level playing field with everyone else. Time will tell!

[omoko joe]

Ok then, so nobody will transfer internally from Boeing to Bus unless its in the base they want to be at. As for outsiders they will be disadvantaged for 6 months. So in real terms unless you are an unemployed bus driver or your company is about to go bust then stayin put is the better option...if you're a captain. My guess is that Easy will attract plenty of F/o's for their buses but few captains which is probably what they want anyway. I presume 73 guys who have passed assessments will be offered Bus commands?

[In trim]

The Airbus will be introduced to a single base at a time, with the selected bases, one-by-one, converting fully to Airbus. That means that if you operate from that base, you will move types!

Operationally you will see a mix of both types in and out of many airports, but from the crew perspective, certain airports will become wholly Airbus whilst others will remain 737.

[Airbrake]

Flaps, thanks for clearing up any ambiguity!
Just to make it absolutly clear, that 6 months does of course start from completion of line check, so all DE Captains will be on 90% pay for about 8 months in total.

[Fly_Right]

In Trim,

I wonder where you get your information from. Although Gatwick will be the first Airbus base with the first 11 UK aircraft going there starting in Mar 2004 absolutely nothing has been decided after that!
The cost of transforming say STN from Boeing to Airbus (14 A/C) would incur £3.4 Million in Boeing training costs. (ie the cost of training the new entrant pilots onto the Boeings wherever they go from STN). Another scenario would be to grow each base as the Airbusses are delivered. As easy has training credits for 6 crews per Aircraft that would mean no retraining costs at all. I'm glad I don't have to do that particular juggling act.

[FlapsOne]

Norman

Which airfields in the middle of nowhere did/do EZ and Go operate?

Debonair used 1 I think - Pontoise - which was badly marketed as Paris. Others such as Moenchengladbach and Peruggia were never advertised as anything other than what they were. They also flew to Munich, Rome, Helsinki, Zurich, Toulouse, Nice - the genuine airports, not distant 'relatives'.

In Trim

I thought the busses were starting to arrive in August?!?!?!?
Has the plot changed again?

[no sig]

Norman SF

I can't help but think, Monarch, BA and the others you mentioned are attempting to take on easyJet, not the other way around. I'm not sure there is a 'traditional model', SWA perhaps, but they are in an entirely different environment. The name of the game is low cost and easyJet is way ahead many of our competitors. Ryanair have of course done well with the regional airports, however, much of the travelling public do wish to fly to the major airports and will pay easyJet the modest premium on fare to do so.

Further, I'm not sure why you say easyJet are overstretched? They are expanding and have consolidated the merger of Go.

The European airline business has to change, the IT charter market is changing, the majors have to find a better way and easyJet is well positioned to deal with them. Quitely getting on with modest profits isn't something most business' aspire to.

You will be aware that the Airbus introduction is going to be with our Swiss operations first and is progressing well, they come on to the UK reg next year and, believe me there has been a considerable amount of planning by the dedicated project team
which has many consumate professionals working in it, they'll have thought of everything you have.

[unwiseowl]

Back to the original subject: Does anyone remember Ray Webster making a statement soon after 9/11 which went like this "if we have a rescession then great because that will provide the ideal environment for us to thrive". I guess he must be hoping the rescession goes on and on!!!!

[carlos vandango]

getting rid of Webster would go some way in making up their substantial loss although they'd probably half to pay him a couple of million to go.

[In trim]

Fly Right,

As I said, the plan at present is to introduce the Airbus one base at a time. To have mixed bases would add too much complexity, additional crew requirements (standby coverage for 2 fleets, etc.)

Where will the second UK base be? The decision for the first was pretty obvious, but the second needs a lot more work to get the most cost-effective solution.

Obviously the cost of transitioning a base such as STN would be huge, and for other reasons (maintenance, training, etc.) I suspect STN and LTN will remain 737 bases for the forseeable future.....after all, there will still be a fleet of 60'ish 737's for quite a while yet.

[fiftyfour]

I am surprised that EJ think that that all they have to do is come onto a route, and then they will automatically get the passengers. Most airlines like BM, BA, FLYBE, and all the established traditional charter airlines are making moves to stand their ground and keep what they have.
The only thing that is certain, is that EJ have commitments for over one hundred brand new aircraft. Serious money. Even, if they convert to leasing, it is still serious money - recession or not. There are no guarantees that there will be enough passengers to fill them, and the competition isn't going to lie down. I will not be 'investing' in EJ, and I sincerely hope that my pension fund managers stay well clearas well.

[FlapsOne]

I am surprised that EJ think that that all they have to do is come onto a route, and then they will automatically get the passengers.

But they do get the pax. Hardly any routes in the last 3 years have been binned. Most, if not all, of the routes introduced in the last 2-3 years are still running succesfully.

Most airlines like BM, BA, FLYBE, and all the established traditional charter airlines are making moves to stand their ground and keep what they have.

Making moves to do nothing! ergo: They don't have the balls for change perhaps?

There are bucket loads of reasons for this financial loss over the last 6 months (most of which were avoidable !!!) but none of them are to do with pax numbers!

(EZ are not in the RED as the title of this thread suggests by the way).

[In trim]

.....and this and other threads repeatedly mention EZY in comparison to BM, FlyBE, etc. The one critical difference with EZY is the 'join-the-dots' philosophy, not just in the UK but also overseas.

Look at the number of continental Europe stations already interlinked, especially from NCE, AMS, BCN, etc. There is a lot of growth potential simply in linking many of the existing stations, particularly in linking up to some of the ex-Go stations in Italy etc.

There are numerous stations (Prague, Milan, etc.) which could easily become 'virtual hubs' in the same was as AMS, BCN, and NCE.

[bijave]

Filling up the planes is not an issue. Making money out of it while keeping your employees happy is one.

Not every airline can do that...

[foundation digger]

Low Cost Model !
People go on and on about the low cost model.

The expression has become meaningless.

large and small companies are all run by people who like all of us have good and bad days, egos tempers, imagination ect ect.

The CEO is crutial to the success or failure of a company, and there is no getting away from that.

EasyJets Share price reflects institutional sentiment towards the company.

It is at an all time low.

Something has to change.

[MerchantVenturer]

Although I often lurk in this forum I rarely contribute to it because I am not an industry professional and consider I have nothing relevant to impart.

However, I hope this post will be excused as a little insight from one representative of the group without whom no passenger airline could survive, namely the passengers.

Yesterday my wife and I flew from BRS to EDI in the morning and returned in the evening. It was our first flight with the airline since total absorption of Go at the end of March.

We were delighted with the service provided - and the fares!

Arrival at EDI was about 15 minutes late but I am sure that was to do with air traffic congestion than with the airline because we were loaded and ready to go ontime. The captain also said he was hoping for an earlier departure slot but in the end was out of luck.

We were a little apprehensive about the return flight because we wondered whether our aircraft might be delayed following its flights during the day which we assumed probably included longwinded diversions to the Med to avoid French air space. In the event we landed back at BRS fifteen minutes early!

The cabin staff on both flights were friendly, helpful and efficient. Both captains also sounded enthusiastic and gave us plenty of information about the flights. On the return flight we were even told the landing weight and landing speed of the aircraft.

A thoroughly enjoyable experience for us provided by crews who were thoroughly professional and there was certainly no outward sign of low morale.

Well done and thank you to everyone at the airline for making our day begin and end well.

The only disappointment was the Division 2 football playoff score that greeted us on our return but that's another story.

[Billy Whizz]

Merchant, with a post like that are you sure you're not a member of Easy managment?

Also, glad you rarely contribute to these forums because with 100+ posts since March you're not doing too badly!

[small4]

Since I note from your previous posts Billy that you work for Easy, I find it rather sad that you apparently cannot accept positive comments over the professional competence of your colleagues at Bristol.

If, as I suspect, this is another of your asides as to the machinations of some or all of the Easy management, please feel totally free to continue.

All I would ask is that you consider the substance and implications of your posts before you hit the 'submit' button.

[MerchantVenturer]

Billy Whizz,

I have never worked in the air or travel industry, neither do I know personally anyone who does. I do not own easyJet shares either and never have done so. My relationship with easyJet is simply as a fare-paying passenger.

When I said I rarely contribute to this forum, I was talking about this forum - Rumours and News - which I understand to be primarily for professional airline staff.

I am merely someone who is very interested in public transport and who finds the views of most contributors informative and valuable. This particular forum is especially helpful to someone trying to learn as much as he can about the civil aviation world.

Most of my posts have been in other forums on this site, many seeking advice or information from people who know far more about civil aviation than I do or ever will. From your rather ungracious comment, it appears that you are suggesting that a total of one hundred posts in about three months is overdoing things. If the moderators of this site think as you do I would certainly accede to their wishes and bow out.

I am sorry that my genuine attempt to highlight what I believe to be praiseworthy service on the day in question seems to have struck a raw nerve with you.

If you do work for easyJet perhaps one day I might have cause to be critical of your performance, in which case I suppose you will be pleased, as you appear to eschew praise when given to colleagues.

[PAXboy]

In the argument about one carrier gaining pax from another ... I think that you will find the crucial issue is: "How far is the airport from my front door?"

Let us say that no LCC had started at LTN, which is less than 20 minutes (average) drive for me. Would I have gone to GO at STN that is an hour and a quarter's drive from me - including the M25 - or would I have gone to LHR that is 40 mins away?

With road transport being so poor, I want to minimise the amount of time I spend using it. If the closer flight is more expensive, I have to have very good reasons to drive further. Families that have four or more tickets to buy and it is a once a year holiday, may have other criteria.

One of the factors that has (and is) fuelling the growth is opening up regional bases. In due course that source of growth will be saturated and THEN we shall see who can run an airline and who can get into the take-over business, as consolidation sets in.

[Billy Whizz]

Merchant please accept my apologies for being excessively cynical and doubting your intentions.

[MerchantVenturer]

Billy,

Thank you for your last post.

I appreciate and accept the sentiments conveyed.

Best wishes.

[bijave]

EZ in the red. Buzz ended in the red. Not sure about Ryanair yet.

Lufthansa is making profits. Air France is making profits. BA is making profits.

Maybe it took the market a while to balance between low cost and traditional airlines...

[Engee73]

easy posted a half year operating loss prior to the most profitable time of the year. The summer. It is likely that as usual it will post a profit over the whole year.

The lowcost market is the future of short haul aviation in europe. Get with the program! :confused:

[qwertyuiop]

Engee 73

I believe you are correct. The future IS low cost. Unfortunately the public are becoming aware that easy are NOT low cost. Try booking LTN AGP and compare with Monarch (www.Flymonarch.com). Easy are often more expensive, both have new aircraft, Monarch do not sting you for food. The easy myth is dead.

[Engee73]

NG puts in a pot of coffee....

sniff the aroma guys, 69 aircraft, 80%+ load factors, 128 aircraft on firm order, a bunch of committed and professional pilots and genarally happy pax.

Espresso or capucchino? (small charge naturally!)

The aroma is coffee, the flavour is orange.

Who is monarch anyway? ;)

The webs favourite airline...now at an airport near you! :ok:

[unwiseowl]

Easy sure is growing, high profile, big new fleet on order, competitors out for blood, just like Courtline, Laker, Air Europe. Same old story. A bubble waiting to burst.

[qwertyuiop]

NG

Are you absolutely sure its coffee you're sniffing?

[carlos vandango]

I think perhaps somebody put something in his coffee..and it wasn't milk :hmm:

[kenoco]

easyjet are always going to make money,so will ryanair,and hopefully so will the main carriers like Air France,British Airways etc,its all about advertising,i find it really sad that a lot of people here like to see companies fail,the same airlines that have made it possible for nearly everybody to fly,the same airlines that u and me use a lot,so what if the "low-fares" airlines are growing.at least they are providing thousands of jobs for many people,why not look on the positive side?????Everybody is going "low-cost".xxM.