PPL Instructors on ego trips

[Miss Bigglesworth]

I recently had a bad experience in the U.S. with an instructor who was quite clearly on a massive ego trip. It was during my flight review and it ended up with me being a bit of a girls blouse with tears and everything. The unfortunate thing was that it has really dented my confidence and haven't been back in a plane since.

Just curious - how many of you have had bad experiences with instructors and how did you deal with them at the time?

(Before I get shot down, I'd just like to say that during my PPL training I had brilliant instructors and I didn't even know that 'bad' one's existed. This is not a pop at instructors in general - most of them do a fantastic job and it's only the minority that need a good slap!)

[MJR]

The requirements to be a UK flying instructor are to have above average flying skills and have the ability to teach. Unfortunately I dont think this provides sufficent remit to be a good instructor. We all meet bad instructors in our training and the best advice is to request flying with someone else. Don't worry about the tears, the cost of flying training alone is enough to bring on tears.

cheers

MJR

[Whirlybird]

There was a thread about this a while back; I wrote in detail about my horrendous experiences with instructors during my training. I discovered I had really opened up a can of worms; a number of people joined in, recounting even worse experiences. I can't remember what the thread was called, but it must have been about 2-3 months ago; if you can't find it in the archives, ask again and I'll look for it if you want. Yes, there are good, indifferent and bad instructors; all they have to be able to do is fly, and I suspect a number are on ego trips. The important thing is to get airborne again with someone you feel comfortable with as soon as possible. Unfortunately flying can be a bit strange in that once youre confidence is knocked that can be quite difficult. I found the most important things were to find an instructor you get on well with, preferably with a lot of experience, if necessary explain to him/her what's happened, and then be gentle with yourself. It may set you back a bit, but just keep going and don't compound the problem by getting upset about it - easier said than done sometimes. Good luck!

[PFD]

As an instructor (ground not air) I have to say that unfortunately you will come across the "ego" more often than not, and that applies to the ground instructors to. Always remember that you are paying for a service and not to fuel some sad acts ego trip. Simply request a different instructor and preferably get any other dissatisfied customers to make their feelings known to. Most people carry on and take the good with the smooth, in my opinion that's okay when dealing with check out staff at Sainsbury's, but when you are forking out dosh in the quantities you do for flight training, then make a fuss. Do it properly though, Mr ego's management will have to crack under sustained joint pressure.

This may be a bit waffly, it's Friday and I've just pubbed it :D

[moggie]

As a former (military) trainee and pilot who is now instructing in the civilian world, I have to say that being a good pilot goes not make you a good instructor. Some of my owrst experiences were at the hands of truly gifted pilot who just could not understand why I could not fly as well as I could. The best QFI I ever flew with could not fly a good barrel roll but did a fantastic job of teaching me to fly a good one!

The guys who struggled in their own training are usually appreciative of the difficulties that their trainees are experiencing. This understanding helps them to find a way around the problems.

However, if an instructor has a bad attitude it is usually because he is a frustrated fast jet or airkline pilot who is secretly a little embarrassed that he does not have a "better job" and works this ouit on those lower down the food chain.

Miss Biggles - ignore the git - ask on this forum for pointers to a school with highly regarded QFI's and go get back in the saddle. A good instructor will remind you that this IS the best fun you can have with your clothes on!

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Miss Bigglesworth,

There will always be bad instructors. It is a function of a persons ability to teach and motivation to do so. There are also times where the problem is just a clash of personalities.

You should send a letter detailing your experience to the owner of the school. If this person is an incompetent instructor, your complaint will not be the only one they will receive. If multiple complaints are received on an instructor the school would remove him/her.

Keep a Stiff Upper Lip,

Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.

[singaporegirl]

I had a similar experience – though in my case the instructor wasn't on an ego trip, he just wasn't interested. It was very demotivating: he was always late and then just sat there moaning about pay and conditions. Now I have a lot of sympathy with his plight, but given the amount I was paying for the lessons I felt it showed a distinct lack of professionalism on his part.

In the end I got fed up and asked to change instructors. The school was very good about it and asked me what sort of approach I preferred, and now I've got an excellent instructor.

I think the problem is that many instructors are in it to build up their hours for that airline job rather than because they enjoy instructing. Again, I don't blame them – that's the way the system works – but too often it means that it's the students (who are after all forking out considerable amounts) who suffer.

But don't let the bad apple put you off such a fantastic experience. Go to your local flying school, explain what happened, and tell them what sort of attitude you prefer in an instructor. Then talk to the instructors they recommend on the ground, before you even get in the plane. You can usually tell within a few minutes whether you're likely to get on or not! But don't give up completely...

[fms146]

Miss Biglesworth

Dont despair..you will find this type of person in all levels of the aviation industry not just at the PPL level. I have run across some in my time and know how soul destroying it can be. You will find this type of person in all walks of life where people have charge or power over another human being. It is sad but we have to deal with it.

There is no doubt that some people can bring the best out of others but the reverse is also true. You asked how to deal with this type of instructor...my suggestion is to politely discontinue the excercise and hand the aircraft over to the instuctor asking him/her to return to the airfield. Report the matter to the operator..but at all times believe in yourself and your own ability. Dont let this type of bully destroy your confidence or your love of flying.

Flight reviews should be an oportunity for you to demonstrate your expertise and knowledge within the bounds of your experience and lisence level.

I try to make it as much fun as possible while introducing real life situations. For a PPL I would pretend to be one of your friends just going for a joy flight. I would ask the same questions they would and I am sure we would have a lot of fun...This is not a training flight so there should be no input from me at all regarding your handleing of the aircraft...I am there to make an assesment of your ability not tell you to fly the way I would..This is a major point many instructors miss completely. We get back to the airfield with you having demonstrated all the reqiured criteria and THEN there is time for me to offer any suggestions I may have..

As for the CPL this is different..I would come into the office as a customer who simply has to get to destination A asap. Again I should have no input at all , afterall what do I know about flying I'm a buissinesman going to a meeting. I will of course change my mind somewhere along the way and want to go to destination B instead but then this is the real world and a commercial pilot must be able to cope with this. Even so all the time I should be polite..friendly and chat about anything but flying...Since I dont know much about flying I may have some questions for you but thats normal..

The message here is that there are too many people out there who think they have to apply as much stress as it takes to make someone crack and start making mistakes they would not normally make. This is both unfair and unrealistic.

There is a certain gentleman in the Bae 146 world who is the most amazing man I have ever met. If only all examiners and instructors were like V.N ...well it would be a perfect world wouldn't it...

[Crowe]

Miss B

flying a plane to CAA/FAA standards ain't really that hard if you're taught well - if there's a problem, it's most likely his, not yours...

[cubby]

Miss world ,
How to deal with instructors .
When you get in the plane , before start up just say " I hope this is going to be a worthwhile lesson because it's costing me X amount of money " I always say it nicely .
Once I have landed after a particually hard training flight I say " thanks for the lesson, now you can taxi it back because I'm knackered and you gotta earn your money" and once on the pan I ask for a debreif on the lesson and say so if I think that the lesson has not been worthwhile .To many instructors just hop out and onto the next student with out so much as a by you leave .

The problem with cocky instructors is that they forget where they came from so you have to install some respect into them and remind them who pays their wages and tell them to F-off if you dont like their methods or their attitude .
Bullies hate to be confronted , so confront them and they don't know what to do , so they start to show a little respect .
IMHO and experience .
Sorry if I've waffled but I'm abit Stellered
Cheerio

Cubby......... :eek:

[Miss Bigglesworth]

Thanks for all your comments - it has made me feel better, and deep down I already know that it's him, not me, with the problem.

I did my PPL in the UK and I didn't have one bad experience with the instructors here - I think I was lucky. I always heard about the 'instructor from hell' and never came across him/her!

It's a shame because I was on hols in the U.S. and I just wanted the experience of flying in the U.S. and booked a couple of days. The instructor that I had for my flight review/check ride was a complete tosser. He was patronising, intimidating and very slimy. I won't go into all the details but just as an example, I didn't have a pre-flight brief, so I had no clue as to what to expect on the flight. He basically gave me the brief during my first take-off & circuit. (This was the first time flying in the U.S. so I was a bit busy at the time & I wasn't taking a huge amount of notice!!)

I was also apparently a 'dangerous' pilot because I was doing my approaches with 2 whites and 2 reds on the PAPI, rather than his preferred 4.

The list of idiotic behaviour on his part is endless but it culminated in him telling me that I would never make a commercial pilot if I needed a flight brief everytime I went flying. The funny thing is, I don't even WANT to be a commercial pilot, I just do it as a hobby - I work in aviation which is enough for me.

I complained to the manager so I really hope he got the chop. The sad thing is that it got me so stressed that it's made me very nervous about future checkrides which I inevitably have to go through.

[Bouncy Landing]

Miss Bigglesworth, if you fly in the US again you could do a lot worse than visit Richard at Naples Air Center (his post above). Last Occtober I had the priviledge to meet him and his wife (Nikki, if I remember correctly) and they sorted my FAA biennial / valiation out very smoothly as well as assisting with planning some P1 pleasure flyng. If in SW Florida they are well worth a visit.

[Wee Ali]

Some guys are just crap at teaching women for whatever reason-I'd suggest trying a female instructor & see how you get on.
Happily I was very lucky with both my instructors.They were kind,intelligent & professional human beings as well as superb pilots which made all the difference after meeting a few horrors..Keep at it & don't let that to***r put you off!

[Whirlybird]

Wee Ali,

That's sometimes true, but perhaps your first sentence should just read "Some guys are just crap at teaching." It does appear to happen more often to women, but I suspect that's because we're more willing to talk about it. I've met guys who've had similar problems; one phoned me and said he was giving up flying (he knew I'd had similar problems so was happy to talk to me), another was told by the CFI he'd never make a pilot but went to another flying school and had his PPL, IMC, and night rating last time I ran into him. These guys shouldn't be instructing. It's the system that needs changing.

[Echo Echo]

If you're ever in Upstate New York I have a fabulous flight instructor that would be happy to help you. I'm working on my Commercial right now. I'm sure he went home and beat his head against the wall getting me through my IFR but in the plane he made everything fun, even the BAD flights. Good luck and just keep looking until you find an instructor you like. Flying is too expensive and too much fun to let a bad instructor take all the joy out of it. ;)

[RVR800]

As a PPL instructor myself I find that some
insructors at this level have chips on their shoulders. The salary doesnt help - about the same as an office cleaner!

If one is emotional i.e. Angry, depressed, Fearful then flying training is
much more difficult - the student should be
positive and relaxed by being encouraged - its difficult enough without this type of hassle.